Nerf AP Stacking(Cosmic)

[Mali]

It is one thing to disagree with me. It is another to attempt to derail a topic, call out my character and her build, and try to make it seem as if I am 'salty' about something that I may or may not have experienced. The moment you did that made your opinion null in my eyes. Anyways..

But in any event, that's what I agree with, China town. It'd make things a lot more competitive in my own opinion...And atleast stop cheese builds that stack AP from appearing.

[Prestige]

I agree.
But, with that said, I don’t think Occult as a tree is as oppressive as Holy. The ap ‘stacking’ from occult is minor. Meanwhile, holy has two shields, two aoes that give you dr, etc. Both trees are strong atm, and I’d argue that Holy is stronger. DR vs AP is never comparable ofc, DR is stronger period. Holy paired with shadow (imo shouldn’t be a thing) is way too oppressive and has too many tools that allow you to cover your mistakes.

I do think that cosmic aoe’s slow should be tuned down a bit, along with some rework for invig. Maybe make it a bigger ap boost, but just for cosmic / light. Rewards true cosmic mages, but the spell is no longer a req in the tree so it doesn’t hurt anyone.

This is false.

Actually, I'm not a number cruncher, but it has been proven in the past that AP stacking >>>> DR stacking. The AP-stacking from occult is not a minor thing, either....I'm not sure why people would think otherwise, especially when they, too, can get upwards of 20% from just sitting on their AOES. I'm not certain as to why you are looking at the tree as a stand-alone either....(that's not the priority of this thread).  This thread is mainly about cosmic, it's ability to AP stack in tandem with other things that give easy amounts of AP such as Occultism, Crystal, (Easy cosmic hiddens), and more. If you bypass this...Just remember that I told you so when my next character comes.

To say that cosmic's damage already took a hit doesn't change the fact that the slow is any less oppressive, especially for how huge the aoe is. It needs more spankings, sorry...not sorry.

I don't disagree about the aoe. I think the slow should be adjusted, but with that said, I don't feel as if the dmg needed the nerf / should be nerfed. Once the slow is balanced the dmg should return to what it was.

Invig is a spell that gives you 10% ap for 10 seconds. Nothing else. No damage. And you slot it on your bar. It isn't bad, but it isn't amazing. Coupled with other trees it can be, sure. But it's hard to say 'oh because Occult and Cosmic together give a lot of AP, we should nerf cosmic'. At least... I disagree with that. But you are entirely wrong when it comes to DR vs AP. AP is more accessible, no doubt about it. But DR is stronger. Period.

I still think that holy offers a tad too much atm, more than Occult - but it's also one of the rare trees that could contend well vs melee until now, so idk. 

With that said, please behave. I don't want to lock this thread because you guys are throwing insults at each other over a balance discussion. We're all adults.

[Kazuki]

I agree.
But, with that said, I don’t think Occult as a tree is as oppressive as Holy. The ap ‘stacking’ from occult is minor. Meanwhile, holy has two shields, two aoes that give you dr, etc. Both trees are strong atm, and I’d argue that Holy is stronger. DR vs AP is never comparable ofc, DR is stronger period. Holy paired with shadow (imo shouldn’t be a thing) is way too oppressive and has too many tools that allow you to cover your mistakes.

I do think that cosmic aoe’s slow should be tuned down a bit, along with some rework for invig. Maybe make it a bigger ap boost, but just for cosmic / light. Rewards true cosmic mages, but the spell is no longer a req in the tree so it doesn’t hurt anyone.

This is false.

Actually, I'm not a number cruncher, but it has been proven in the past that AP stacking >>>> DR stacking. The AP-stacking from occult is not a minor thing, either....I'm not sure why people would think otherwise, especially when they, too, can get upwards of 20% from just sitting on their AOES. I'm not certain as to why you are looking at the tree as a stand-alone either....(that's not the priority of this thread).  This thread is mainly about cosmic, it's ability to AP stack in tandem with other things that give easy amounts of AP such as Occultism, Crystal, (Easy cosmic hiddens), and more. If you bypass this...Just remember that I told you so when my next character comes.

To say that cosmic's damage already took a hit doesn't change the fact that the slow is any less oppressive, especially for how huge the aoe is. It needs more spankings, sorry...not sorry.

I don't disagree about the aoe. I think the slow should be adjusted, but with that said, I don't feel as if the dmg needed the nerf / should be nerfed. Once the slow is balanced the dmg should return to what it was.

Invig is a spell that gives you 10% ap for 10 seconds. Nothing else. No damage. And you slot it on your bar. It isn't bad, but it isn't amazing. Coupled with other trees it can be, sure. But it's hard to say 'oh because Occult and Cosmic together give a lot of AP, we should nerf cosmic'. At least... I disagree with that. But you are entirely wrong when it comes to DR vs AP. AP is more accessible, no doubt about it. But DR is stronger. Period.

I still think that holy offers a tad too much atm, more than Occult - but it's also one of the rare trees that could contend well vs melee until now, so idk. 

With that said, please behave. I don't want to lock this thread because you guys are throwing insults at each other over a balance discussion. We're all adults.

I wouldn't mind seeing a change on the slow. I do agree that it is a bit much since it can be slapped down so quickly.

[Left Brain]

Just give everything in cosmic ap. Give the aura ap, give invig ap, give upgrade aura ap, give the aoe ap. just go all in. It's time for cosmic to reign supreme

[Teemo]

Yeah, many people have said it. Cosmic has been very strong in all games. I'd argue that E3's cosmic is better than E2's. The utility they got from the slows on their aoes, AP stacking being much easier leaves trees without access to it struggling. Gone are the days of base % md and melee. Everything is just AP or flat mdam now, which both add onto % AP. Cosmic's beam does more than any other for literally no reason since the invig req got removed off it. It leads into an advanced tree which is also good. Prism Beam having such high scaling just capitalizes on all that AP bonus you stacked off the countdown.

It's just the better version of occult/holy with weaker ic imo. The Church has become nearly non-existent. A lot of the cosmic users I see (and boy are there a lot of them) feel like they worship the stars solely for access to the tree, and just fail to mention it anytime after they receive their tome outside of dev.

Also on the off-topic discussion of DR>AP Stack, I think % DR is valued more than AP (if you have 0% of each). If you have 100% DR, you're invincible. If you have 100% AP, you double your damage. AP Stacking is more viable because there's way, way more sources for it, simply they'll never be a way to reach a passive 100% DR for obvious reasons. And because you can get higher %'s of AP, you'll scale better with it to a level far greater than you could with DR.

[Volatile]

I think Invigorate should be removed if Cosmic is going to have THREE hidden auras of various aesthetics and slight stat changes that all give AP.
Crimson COsmic shoudl have visible health drain ticks again.

[Kazuki]

They give the normal amount of ap as the base aura from cosmic with their own special effects... Plus, they're masters and most of them aren't even what they are on the hidden list. Starlight Overdrive for example.

[Avee]

Hi, Avee here with a hot take.

Cosmic is bad because it is overused. 

Cosmic mages are bad roleplayers.

Faggots follow stars but I literally never see it IC except before a fight where they cry out to their stupid ball of purification energy or corrupted energy or whatever.

They say they like it for the IC when really they like it for the sheer utility.

They lie to us constantly and we’ve fallen for it long enough.

Nerf Cosmic to standard levels, and if they still use it because they like the IC maybe consider buffing it a pinch.

But let’s face it, cosmic mages only argue so vehemently against merging cosmic because it’s the only aoelltree they know how to use because it’s stayed consistent where other trees have changed. They are scared of trying new things, and when they do get fucking devastated.

Nerf cosmic to make it on-par with other trees.

Currently it is not.

No amount of quoting me or bitching will change my opinion.

Cosmic users a shit.

Thanks for reading!

[Miscreated]

I don't really respond to threads, but after reading this one it just kills motivation to even continue playing a cosmic mage. It doesn't matter if you follow the lore or how much you try to help revive the Church rp. People will continue to bash a tree because they only care about the pvp aspects of the tree instead of the lore behind it. I don't see that many cosmic mages and I usually see people spawn and just go holy magic and that's more common than cosmic. I guess if people have a hard time beating a tree then it calls for a nerf and I also tell people cosmic alone can't win a fight it's what you pair it with, but I guess this is just me losing motivation to continue rping as one snice everyone hates the tree. If nerfing it makes people feel better about there win to lost record then do it, so they can find the next tree to hate and complain about till it gets nerfed.

[spellzer]

cosmic alone can't win a fight it's what you pair it with,

Not agreeing or disagrees on anything in this thread but for the record this applies to basically every tree.