Nerf Armed

[Madsen]

For the future, unless you have something serious or relevant to add to the discussion, please do not comment. Memes, insults, explicit language and the like are not suitable for Suggestions.

Also change the title or I will, Teemo. If you want people to take your suggestion serious, you first have to be serious about it yourself.

[Milly]

I don't think armed is overtuned.
I don't play armed, I've only played mage thus far...

I don't think armed needs to be nerfed.

[Teemo]

Another point I failed to make before. Armed spells require no investment, have low cost for the amount of usability and damage you get along with the many spells it gives you. Compared to commonly trees regarded as problematic, they require much, much less rpp for more spells. Explosion, sand, shadow, light are all advanced trees. You have to buy both an attunement and opener for them, their costs are really high for good significant spells and they only have about 3-4 spells to choose from for an investment of 100+ rpp. Melee's only investments are dash strike/Jan which are both good and almost required to gap close. Then you get access to 5-6 spells high damage low cd spells for 70-90 rpp at most. Their basic spells are arguably as strong as their intermediates and can be used regardless of whether you're melee or a burst mage.

[Joshua]

I don’t think armed is that over-tuned personally. In my opinion, it’s just the fact that we’re all able to use hybrids now since power is one stat and we have an influx of armed users coming in because not only is it just so much cooler to use a sword and magic (people been tryna do that from E1 days), but it’s effective too. Armed alone isn’t over-tuned, but in combination with other trees it can be powerful.

But guess what?

Same goes for literally every other tree in the game. Most are shit by themselves, but, coupled with something complimentary just makes it so much better. Only difference is we have a lot more people going armed because it’s viable now unlike in the past. As someone who plays armed or unarmed on just about every character since Spires, I can say that it’s in a good spot as it is.

[Teemo]

I don’t think armed is that over-tuned personally. In my opinion, it’s just the fact that we’re all able to use hybrids now since power is one stat and we have an influx of armed users coming in because not only is it just so much cooler to use a sword and magic (people been tryna do that from E1 days), but it’s effective too. Armed alone isn’t over-tuned, but in combination with other trees it can be powerful.

But guess what?

Same goes for literally every other tree in the game. Most are shit by themselves, but, coupled with something complimentary just makes it so much better. Only difference is we have a lot more people going armed because it’s viable now unlike in the past. As someone who plays armed or unarmed on just about every character since Spires, I can say that it’s in a good spot as it is.

But the thing with armed is that it isn't shit by itself. It can compliment a main tree with the stats it gives and the utility from dash or pstrikes or be complimented by other trees. And most of the strong trees right now are intermediates which require attunement from a basic tree. If you choose them you're limited to either other trees/spells from that element or another tree you can only afford a few spells in.

Armed costs around 80 rpp for 5-6 spells leaving you only 4 slots to spend 120-140 RPP on. You have the option of filling them with high impact spells and hiddens/low cost utility and support along with toggle buff or upgrade hiddens to take full advantage of the AP and power you have.

And it's great that you have so many options for melee now. It allows for more creativity when it comes to build and if you go for an ic build you wont be utterly useless. But right now it just feels that armed overbuffs trees that are already strong. Occult/Holy, Energy, Cosmic, Explosion

[Joshua]

I don’t think armed is that over-tuned personally. In my opinion, it’s just the fact that we’re all able to use hybrids now since power is one stat and we have an influx of armed users coming in because not only is it just so much cooler to use a sword and magic (people been tryna do that from E1 days), but it’s effective too. Armed alone isn’t over-tuned, but in combination with other trees it can be powerful.

But guess what?

Same goes for literally every other tree in the game. Most are shit by themselves, but, coupled with something complimentary just makes it so much better. Only difference is we have a lot more people going armed because it’s viable now unlike in the past. As someone who plays armed or unarmed on just about every character since Spires, I can say that it’s in a good spot as it is.

But the thing with armed is that it isn't shit by itself. It can compliment a main tree with the stats it gives and the utility from dash or pstrikes or be complimented by other trees. And most of the strong trees right now are intermediates which require attunement from a basic tree. If you choose them you're limited to either other trees/spells from that element or another tree you can only afford a few spells in.

Armed costs around 80 rpp for 5-6 spells leaving you only 4 slots to spend 120-140 RPP on. You have the option of filling them with high impact spells and hiddens/low cost utility and support along with toggle buff or upgrade hiddens to take full advantage of the AP and power you have.

And it's great that you have so many options for melee now. It allows for more creativity when it comes to build and if you go for an ic build you wont be utterly useless. But right now it just feels that armed overbuffs trees that are already strong. Occult/Holy, Energy, Cosmic, Explosion

How can you say it’s not shit by itself, then immediately jump to pairing it with other trees? My main point is that armed is just like most other trees in a sense that you have to pair it with something for it to be really good. You just repeating the same things you said to other folks up above.

[Sanguine415]

I agree, nerf armed and make Hated scream. But don't touch unarmed, yes yes.

…

Jokes aside, unarmed is in a good place balance wise. Jab is half the range of dash strike and can be mitigated by slows. Axe kick and weighted punch are the bread and butter, precious and nerfed from their prime to an acceptable place. Flying kick is eh, lariat I heard is decent again, iron body is situational and baitable.

What makes unarmed good isn't the unarmed tree, it's the fact that it's a functional spellblade because stances give power (Which is great, DBZ RP has never been better). Unless you're a demon or have a bunch of hiddens, no unarmed will ever surpass your average mage or armed in the power stat. And that's good, it's how it should be.

[Mordere]

In my opinion from seeing armed? By itself, it's a good tree. Not insane, not shite either (poor.....Poor poor forgotten child i'll never forget, Air.)

It's a good tree, but when you pair it with any other good tree it becomes a little gross. Armed Holy Explosion for example would be disgusting because overheat+bang and then they run at you and pelt you with the wrath of an angry god thanks to a 30 pow aura and a 10% AP bladestyle while at 40% DR (85% if you combine guardian and barrier but that's another story.) for about 10 seconds.

Go grab a 10% AP elemental bladestyle, an aura that isn't stingy when it comes to power, and make sure you have two slows at range (like overheat, mind fray, bang, air flurry, etc.) so you can close the distance thanks to 90% of people not having a slow cleanse before you proceed to double slash, fatal, psmash, phantom strike, cleave, and god knows what elemental tree skills you have to victory.

[Chinatown]

The only problem or less of a problem and more of a convenience, I see with armed/unarmed is that they don't really have as much of a great need to apply for hiddens, compared to mages that focus purely on the spell flinging aspect, to be pretty effective in most cases when it comes to fighting.

I am pretty certain that most trees alone solely compared to just the unarmed and armed trees have a noticeable amount of trash skills, things just sitting in there which aren't worth using outside of collecting them to hit the 60 RPP mark to get to the good things. Or you have trees that require you to apply for its hidden spells to actually obtain the true oppressive power that it wasn't capable of within its tome spells. Armed only has one and that's a hundred cuts, but it's an intermediate you can ignore!

Nature for example. Without the hidden vine summons, you can apply for, Nature on its own really isn't much of a threat since the normal vines can be killed and sure Deadly Bloom is annoying when they have multiple down but! Unless you pair Nature with other trees, it doesn't do much except exist to be an annoyance.

Let's take a tree that has great specialisation trees but the base of it lacks quite a bit. Fire is the greatest example of this. It's cost-heavy for its intermediates and its specialisations are so good, you can easily consider completely ignoring base fire outside of overheat and fireball which are really great.

What about other spell trees which just seem generally bad at a first glance? Wind, another big example! Grab flurry and shockwave and that's about it, you can ignore everything else in most cases unless you want the aura which is decent. Lightning? Shock still has a cast animation locking you in place for a moment, it basically feels like an inferior sweeping cleave as you don't maintain as much mobility, so that's a horrid 25 RPP investment that goes down the drain.

There's more to list, but I haven't used those trees yet or seen them in action and that's probably for a very good reason; some trees just aren't really worth using at the moment compared to the other offerings on the table and need to be brought up to be viable and not a waste of time, energy and investment.

I think a healthy but very unpopular change would be to treat specialisations as intermediates on entry, requiring you to put in 60 RPP into the base tree to go into them outside of applying for them due to special circumstances, e.g Druids getting entry into Nature without buying into Earth. Then you could allow those specialisations to keep their power without fear of people 'dipping', then strengthen the base trees up so they're actually worth the investment.

[Hated]

I feel like this is better as another forum post and off tangent of the topic of armed