+- Chronicles of Eternia (https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Out of Character (https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Suggestions (https://chronicles-of-eternia.com/forum/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: Nerf Armed (/thread-1720.html)
Nerf Armed - Teemo - 02-18-2020
Reduce the stat stick given by stances. It's actually crazy how half the server has armed, regardless of whether they're an actual swordsman or not. The stances give stats on top of your weapon, the spells have good scaling with your massive pow and on top of that it's usable with every tree. There are no prerequisite trees for the three basic stances and there's an intermediate hidden for every tree that exists.
It basically converts all elemental pow into pow allowing for easy AP stacking with shit that gives ele pow. AP exists in so many sources and scales harder the more you get. The 10% AP on a stance is anywhere from 25-50 power while giving you access to options like pstrikes, double, galeforce, dash and sweeping cleave.
Holy armed right now is literally just, "I take less damage and output way more than you." They win match ups just from stats alone. Then there's the problem of pairing it with shit like energy and cosmic and just skyrocketing your power.
At least lock armed to swords or something. Afaik, physical is a worthless stat and a sword would be considered a slight drawback when compared to a staff. If it isn't, it should be made so that the physical portion of its power doesn't convert to magic damage. It's stupid how I can see someone wearing a staff, activating an armed stance and not knowing whether they're going to play a close-ranged fighter or an aoe/kite mage.
Also, with the base stances being nonrefundable and I think a requirement to the intermediate ones? (I heard that if you don't have one you have to pay 10 RPP instead of 5, either way same shit) you'll have garuda as a secondary stance. You get the option of swapping it out when dealing with slows.
TL DR A 10% AP toggle for any tree while giving access to viable, versatile hard-hitting spells is stupid and promotes power build AP stacking bull shit.
RE: Fuck Armed - Volatile - 02-18-2020
if someone has a base of 500 power ill be flabbergasted. But yeah I do think that the armed elemental stances should only be used by characters who are actually invested into armed and not... someone who dipped in, got dash strike and a couple spells, then when they had the ability approved had them all refunded. Which I know at least one person who has done this. Though the 10% ap isnt too bad. They get a bit more power while lacking the utility of other stances.
Edit: I don't think the elemental stances needed removed/nerfed as much as I think they need reworked. It's the same stance just with... a different effect depending on what element you use it with. Would be cool if instead of AP they gave special things like ice giving chance to frost bite and cosmic giving chance to toggle an extra invigorate on damage.
RE: Fuck Armed - Kazuki - 02-18-2020
As someone who is actually invested into armed, I agree.
But, until sand and explosion are nerfed. You can't touch armed :)
RE: Fuck Armed - Detective100 - 02-18-2020
I think the problem might be more general and broad: When one apps for a hidden, once they get it, they can then treat as a basic skill instead. That is, they don't need to invest 60 RPP into the tree before being able to buy.
So in theory, one could invest into a certain tree while apping for someone, get the app for the hidden approved, and then refund anything he/she doesn't want. I believe mechanically forcing it so that you need to have 60 rpp into a tree before you can use any hiddens in the tree would help the situation.
RE: Fuck Armed - Prestige - 02-18-2020
Just look at the numbers, really.
Fatal: 16 spell damage on 13 secs cd.
Phantom Strike: 13.5 damage on 25 cd (homing).
Double Slash: 9 damage on 9 cd.
Sweeping Cleave: 12 damage on 10 cd.
Power Smash: 13 damage on 20 cd.
To compare Phantom Strike to an average homing ability on a 20 cd, they have 7 damage or less. It has 13.5 (!!!) - highest damage in the tree.
You want to hear a crazier number?
With all of that, this is still one of the cheapest trees in the game.
QUICK EDIT: The truth is, the problem isn't related to the 10% ap from bladestyles. I wish it was, but it isn't. The tree should actually be looked at (unarmed as well, it's even worse in terms of numbers).
RE: Fuck Armed - Kazuki - 02-18-2020
Let's not forget their RPL cost. We have:
Fatal Strike - 15 RPL
Powersmash - 15 RPL
Sweeping Cleave - 10
Phantom Strike - 10
Honestly, I think that Fatal and Phantom should be the intermediates of the tree since Power Smash needs you up close and can oom when 2 tiles away. Hundred Cuts is literally garbo compared to double strike so I'd say move it out of there. My opinion, tbh. That being said, we'll moved to unarmed
Axe Kick - 10 Spell Damage 10 RPP - Homing - GCDE
Weighted Punch - 10 spell damage 10 RPP -10% DR for 4-5 seconds - Homing
Flying Kick - 13 Spell Damage - 15 RPP - Linear Dash
Jab - Whatever Strike's spell damage is - 5 Range TP but can be exploited by proccing it with dash to make it instant. 1 second CD.
I think whatever has problems with when it comes to melee is 'Combo potential' honestly it's really the only thing they got to compete against kiters. But some of these 'Basic' spells don't really compare to the 'Intermediate' spells which have me questioning it a lot.
RE: Fuck Armed - Hated - 02-18-2020
lets not forget you literally need to be within range of 1-3 for any of these spells armed has.
high risk high reward. kiters can still fuck over armed if they kite right and outplay people. then lets talk about aoes. shit lets talk about roots. root a melee? their bar is shit on while they wait for the root to come up. kiters? any range means nothing to them.
lets talk about sand root. fucks armed. occult aoe? you sit on it, its painful for armed and the user gets bonus ap? fuck yeah.
lets talk about any and all miasma keeping any melee at bay and away.
lets not talk about armed needing nerfs.
RE: Fuck Armed - Chinatown - 02-18-2020
Most mage abilities, homing or not have much higher cooldowns than the melee abilities, coupled with a lot less damage. So not only do pure mages lack combo potential depending on their chosen trees, but they also have fewer stats than a swordsman or a hybrid!
It's also why Sand and Explosion are pretty popular trees, they give you tools to deal with armed and unarmed; so they can't all-in and burst you with Ifrit's E which gives GCDE, for example.
RE: Fuck Armed - Hated - 02-18-2020
this threads name is literally fuck armed. I cant take it fully serious. sounds like people are fighting someone with ap stacks and that's the root of the issue, not armed itself. sure bladestyles like gentle blae variants give ap and yknow it gets hectic to a point where numbers begin to raise damage exponentially, but armed itself isn't the issue. both melee styles have taken hit after hit in balance. when will enough be enough? what about literal aoe instant slows? who is really looking away from people with sand trapping people and deleting hp bars in seconds? who the hell is complaining about melee combos when all it takes is a simple fucking beam into the face of a dash striking melee user to punish them and cost them the match? you realize the melee combos only really begin to hurt over 320+ power. sounds like this power is easily achievable with demons, and from what ive seen a lot of demons have these bladestyles.
don't nerf armed or unarmed. they've taken their hits. start raising the bar for other spell trees instead of nerfing melee for a fourth time
if armed gets hit im outtie
RE: Fuck Armed - Jesse - 02-18-2020
I’m actually going to side with Hated on this one. Maybe it isn’t that armed and unarmed are that good. Maybe other trees are just underperforming. Raw numbers don’t really mean anything in a vacuum, outside of the costs associated with investing in them, but the fact that armed abilities (might, as someone who doesn’t play it) actually feel worth it doesn’t mean that they’re overturned.
The balance philosophy in this game is far too punitive. People often go “fuck that guy” without realizing that maybe the things they use just aren’t up to par. But making people regret their choice to play something is just not the way to go. All it does is appeal to people who want revenge more than they want a good game.