Login

Tyrea · 03-13-2024, 09:20 PM

I regret that this thread will most likely get locked before I can adequately respond to it.

No matter, I possess other channels, and use those when I have the time.

Iceshadow · 03-13-2024, 09:43 PM

one of my worst app denials was when i had apped for an intermediate ability (way of the wild boar) and chance himself lit me on fire and kicked me in the head (while i was burning to death)

he told me that never again should i type anything and called me a filthy am*rican

i tried again a second time and got denied twice

that time he actually just executed me on the spot

VibeEntertainment · 03-13-2024, 09:44 PM

Sorry for your loss.

Tyrea · 03-15-2024, 10:16 PM

Wow, if you're seeing this then I was unusually timely, or my guess this thread would be locked was incorrect. Nevertheless…

-

Hello.

-

In recent times, and many times before that, there has been quite some discussion over the application system Eternia has, which I understand is both important and frustrating to many people in the community. I have had some grievances in the past over both concepts I lacked the weight to manifest and a few fateful applications that I still question "what if?".

-

Truth be told I don't interact with the application system often, and the times I do apply are usually to get better opportunities to connect better with a faction and thus cultivate more roleplay. I usually have no need for a signature, for if I'm already losing greatly in most fights then a signature wouldn't make much of a difference. I did try to lay out plans on deving for mirrorwalking with Ariedine but her story ended before that could get off the ground. I got holy/occult/medic in Eternia 3 on various characters, and even a mastery on my best character during the 2nd reset, which frankly I didn't need given she was on her way out at the time, I just wanted the achievement of having gotten one.

-

I'm not a frequent appear by any means, but I believe I have enough of a player perspective on the application system to see a pattern.

-

Recent discussion on the system has centered on the frustrations of quite a few players about spending a good amount of character development to achieve a signature or equivalently hard ability only to be met with constant denials, and sometimes even discouragement from continuing on their long journey. I'm unable to know how many of those applications were solid, for I am not in that position. I know that the quest for an ability, passive, or even acknowledgment to show for all of their time roleplaying when they see their peers opening portals and glaring with spiritual sight is strong in many players. The bitterness they feel I can understand, for to work towards something for perhaps a month or longer, to believe you have done everything right and fulfilled all requirements only for it to come out to nothing can be discouraging, and you shouldn't feel guilty when venting such frustration.

-

The admin side of this conversation is also understandable. Given there are many applications every week, journey admins have to devote quite an amount of their free time to sort through them, from the easy misses, to the hard hits, and everywhere in between. It is not an enviable position to be in, nor one that can be stacked given the level of trust required to handle applications objectively as a person can. The potential to get thrown into an argument with a disgruntled player, as ACuriousGrey alluded to, can be quite draining on an already time-consuming process, not to mention being pointless for all parties involved. I can believe Chances word that a good number of these applications are players looking to see if they can high roll with what they currently have, especially with signatures.

-

The admins need to curate and keep the numbers of characters with special abilities and signatures low for them to both not be required and keep their special status. There is a good number of those who failed to gain enough dev as those who applied before, but there is also the average character who hyper-focused their IC on something only to get denied in the end, and I would even believe there are a few apps with characters with collective story impact who lack the necessary dev to get what they wanted.

-

When Chance reformed hiddens into signatures at the launch of E4 he wanted them not to be required, and that players wouldn't need to touch the forums at all to be competitive and make an impact on the collective story. However, from the perspective of quite a few, the goal post for hidden was only been shifted higher, with many trying to shoot for the stars in the hopes they can be in that exclusive group within the 10%, the ideal ratio of players who have signatures. From this perspective, Eternia can feel like a zero-sum game, with players who want to have an impact trying to unnaturally bend their character to conform to a signature, with those who can get one holding all the power, and those denied forever washed to the sidelines. This sole focus on a limited dev target at the expense of everything else is perhaps the source of the "Bad Mindset" that staff often refer to in applicants.

-

I am not blaming these applicants, for I suspect there is something a good number of them are after something beyond power and influence, that being recognition and something to stand their character out from the rest. In a game of players who often roleplay spells and professions straight up, getting a hidden ability can often be a way for them to stand out from the crowd and grand their character a 'style'. Of course, there are other benefits to apps such as making EC's and roleplay fluff supported by mechanics. Still, there are plenty of low-stakes flavor to be found in Eternia lore that aren't even supported by the code or application, but in the constant hunt for signatures, they are often ignored.

-

Tell me, when was the last time you saw someone roleplay wordcasting?

-

When was the last time you saw someone training their magic outside of a spar that wasn't targeting an application?

-

When was the last time you saw Faeborne acknowledge or even use Delphinian magi-tech, despite it being set up as on the level as Barsburg's?

-

When was the last time you saw a magi-tech project that didn't involve synths outside of the master dever milf slayer himself?

-

When was the last time you saw a dryad trying to grow more of her kin?

-

When was the last time you saw someone flavoring their magic that isn't related to a signature?

-

I can go on and on about this, but there are several more examples if you dig for them. There are plenty of spell styles and alterations a player can roleplay today without needing to rely on an app to justify. Of course, if they wanted something mechanical/admin enforceable such as spawning EC's, stances, or something else they would require an app, but otherwise, they are free to hone their power, display it in their roleplay, and perhaps guide others in using it. I'm not just referring to things that were already thought about in the past, but things that can be created today and developed in the same spirit one could dev for an application.

-

You could carve magical totems out of the various woods of the land, infusing them with raw mana and slamming them down in battle to unleash bursts of power. You could augment yourself like Barsburg Technomancers did before, cultivating an artificial signal within yourself that you can unleash on others to drive them to insanity. You could process a minor artifact of fire magi that fuels you with a foreign rage, constantly infusing it to grant you the most power at the cost of controlling your anger. These are just some examples I could think about we writing this, but there are plenty more people who can discover and roleplay without the input of an application. As long as it's not directly mimicking a signature or something obviously overpowered (Aether Magic/Lichdom/Timetravel/Other obvious things) it should be fair game for a player to dev for today. Necromancy and Faith, in the beginning, didn't hold any mechanical weight, to begin with, but after several players gave them importance and incorporated them into their roleplay it was formalized into their mechanics. Who knows, perhaps if a new style of magic is given meaning my multiple players long enough it might get some mechanical weight one day.

-

Even if there is no app behind it, and there is no external reward for going on a journey to dev for something that isn't supported, it would give your character a focus, a goal, a story, a unique style, and perhaps an arc, all things that admins consider when they are deciding to approve a character's application. Ironically enough, deving for something that isn't mechanically supported and making it a core part of your IC journey has the possibility of giving you a better chance of deving for something that is.

-

I've been refining this for quite a bit and I should do some additional testing and experience before giving any detailed advice about this. For now, I will leave you, the reader who has come this far (and those skimming, I don't judge) with this.

-

Don't just develop your character for applications, develop your character to both show your creativity and have fun along the way.

uncatastrophic · 03-15-2024, 10:20 PM

(03-15-2024, 10:16 PM)Tyrea Wrote:
-

Tell me, when was the last time you saw someone roleplay wordcasting?

-

When was the last time you saw someone training their magic outside of a spar that wasn't targeting an application?

-

When was the last time you saw Faeborne acknowledge or even use Delphinian magi-tech, despite it being set up as on the level as Barsburg's?

-

When was the last time you saw a magi-tech project that didn't involve synths outside of the master dever milf slayer himself?

-

When was the last time you saw a dryad trying to grow more of her kin?

-

When was the last time you saw someone flavoring their magic that isn't related to a signature?

1. me, occasionally, but not counting me still fairly recently
2. a favorite pastime of younger characters; most established characters are pretty set in their magic and any training would be to make a major change, which is the sort of thing you app for
3. i very much saw this during my time in dal'thala: currently, it seems to have fewer artificers again and i am not privy to the inner projects and such
4. i have worked on several
5. i don't think it worked out, but i did hear of something like that a few months back
6. all the time. i disagree that the application system reduces flavoring of one's magic, i think there are many people who flavor their magic interestingly without any tie to signature magic

bonafidenubbin · 03-15-2024, 10:34 PM

Yeah, I have to admit I do not get the relevance of the points being made above - almost everybody I know does cool and interesting RP with their magic that is not backed by specific coded abilities. That seems completely orthogonal to the question of application and sigs, except for sigs like spectral sight that enable specific flavor as much as they enable a coded benefit.

I am also not sure I see any reason why the number of players with signatures needs to be low - I think it's just fine to award sigs to everybody who meets criteria. The focus on keeping them rare is probably behind a fair bit of the angst, especially as it can turn into a "rich-get-richer" scenario - those who are advantaged in every other way also knowing very well how to write apps with maximum success chance. (Not blaming either those players or the admins for that. It's just the nature of the beast.)

From my perspective as somebody on my first PC, you don't need signatures to 'stand out from the crowd' - that's largely doable with just good RP.

But to truly, genuinely have a major impact on ongoing events, you need to be able to win fights.

I know people will jump on me with counterexamples, but that's been my experience so far in the last five months. YMMV!

mat13295 · 03-15-2024, 10:36 PM

Nobody does wordcasting because they die of cringe after reading the name of the spell they used. (It's me. I Died of cringe after wordcasting on Renee)

ACuriousGrey · 03-15-2024, 10:37 PM

Imagine calling out your technique name like a cringe anime protagonist. (My Siren, Ria, was a wordcaster, she just sang due to Sirenian religion. That's it.)

Trafalgar246 · 03-15-2024, 10:38 PM

matthew is a wordcaster....

akemimera · (This post was last modified: 03-16-2024, 02:27 AM by akemimera.)