[VibeEntertainment]

Hey, nice to meet you whomever you are reading this. I'm Vibe, a player who's been on and off Eternia for a good bit. Spanning across a few years accumulative? My history on this game has shown me a lot, taught me a lot. How to speak to people. How to act around people. How to make friends. How to make sure you're not breaking rules. Treat others with respect and so on. The list continues.

Eternia shows you a lot. Good and Bad.

So, with that in mind. Let's go to my topic.

The Reponses from the Application System.

First, let's start by saying...

Why are some players of the community who do apply for things after.... let's see. Hours, and hours of their time. Amounting to days, weeks, months even, of their characters life/story being told things like....

"Your story isn't significant"

"Your development is too basic"

Alongside whatever other reasonings were given in regards to being denied. Again, this did not happen to me. This apparently has happened to those select few of "Some Players in the Community" now, my suggestion towards this?

Don't tell people in a writing game their time and effort of how they go about something is...

A. Not Significant?

B. Too Basic?

These are major hits to someone's motivation. People will log off, not feel obligated to play at all. You're supposed to encourage people. Help them improve so they can feel rewarded for the time and effort they put in. Is it the same as someone else's? No.

Are they going to be some great Necromancer like Nidaz or Xarxes? No.

Everyone legit puts in their own *Unique* spin on things. How this looks is literally...

You're no longer developing something your way to achieve something but instead doing it in a way that appeals to a group of people reading your "Application"

For again, them to tell you the aforementioned responses of Not Significant or Too Basic. Bare in mind this is no "Shot" at anyone because personally? I really don't know any of those who do apps or whatever. Your work for the game is appreciated but what is said to someone carries weight. It hits morale, it kills motivation. In a writing game, again that we're playing for fun.

To see cool characters or your own story flourish in *Your* own way, not how someone else wishes to see it.

Now, I'm not going to bring up how X person has this and someone who was denied for the same thing doesn't have it? Why? Not important, since everyone develops things their own way regardless of if the reward is the exact same thing or not. So we wont go down that rabbit hole. I'm also not going to ignore that the tier of a "Sig" shouldn't be applied in this instance. If something is Mythic, then yes you can say "What you've done regarding this Signature Ability is just about there, but not really grasping it just yet. Feel free to apply in the future after doing the following:" Like this <---- is far better than "Not significant, Too Basic" Just a thought.

However, why are people afraid to put in apps???

That should never be the case where someone looks at me and tells me they are afraid to show their effort to people because they feel

They are too basic

They are not significant

What?

How is that okay? I suggest using alternative words when speaking to people of the community about their denials. Go ahead and deny them however many times you want. Just don't do "That" to someone. It's hurtful to say that of the person's time and effort OOC. They may not report it and express a concern maybe, but they do feel this way.

As far as the application system itself? It's fine I hope?, just the responses people are given hits motivation when it's said a certain way. That's all.

[Kayla]

I have to agree that the language used is often vague, dry and even dismissive.

It can be very demoralizing. Especially with the fact that this game is purposefully extremely "loose" with the requirement. Its not like there is a clear cut path. We just do our best and see what sticks.

But I've seen many application responses, most of them not mine. But there has been quite many I've seen that I thought to myself "How do they feel like that is an acceptable response to an application"


Though, on the other side of the coin, I've also seen certain replies that were incredibly insightful and did seem well thought out and helped to show direction.

An application refusal is an opportunity. It is a moment where staff can show a player how to grow and motivate them as to create better and bigger stories. It shouldn't be an offhanded slap that just throws someone's plate on the ground.

That just wastes everyone's time.

[Lightborne]

I have a lot to say about this but I'm tired atm so I'll provide a full response later, not just for the denial specifically, but for things in general.

Btw I tried to contest, it got ignored and closed.

[Iotasilver]

My biggest "meh" towards applications, (because I don't like to app for sigs anywho), is that for minor utility abilities there seems to be a... lack of desire for alternative paths to deving them? Atleast from my experience.

My example: I'm a T-rex. I can't speak. I've had dozens of telepathic conversations by thinking into the void and having telepathic people respond to me. I've had scenes where people telepathically affected my dreams, and we went back and forth. I've had multiple dangers where I channel my undeveloped mental energy into my attacks but...

I'm denied for telepathy and they recommend I get a teacher or "learn the sensations from someone who has telepathy."

It does get a bit frustrating when you do stuff and you aren't on the "correct path" but the correct path wouldn't really... fit your character.

[Friendliest]

My biggest "meh" towards applications, (because I don't like to app for sigs anywho), is that for minor utility abilities there seems to be a... lack of desire for alternative paths to deving them? Atleast from my experience.

My example: I'm a T-rex. I can't speak. I've had dozens of telepathic conversations by thinking into the void and having telepathic people respond to me. I've had scenes where people telepathically affected my dreams, and we went back and forth. I've had multiple dangers where I channel my undeveloped mental energy into my attacks but...

I'm denied for telepathy and they recommend I get a teacher or "learn the sensations from someone who has telepathy."

It does get a bit frustrating when you do stuff and you aren't on the "correct path" but the correct path wouldn't really... fit your character.

Facts

[ACuriousGrey]

I'll be frank because I truthfully don't really have much to comment about this.

Threads like this pop up every month or two, and it's a good reason why I got exceptionally burnt out while I still was working on apps sometime last year (though this was before the switch the to Google Form entirely for ability apps). It's extremely stressful knowing that someone is going to get upset even when you're trying your hardest, and it's merely an inevitability. Not to say all complaints were invalid or unwarranted but it's merely a matter of time until someone gets upset and goes to the forums.

Denials, at least back during my time, were the biggest hold-up when it came to apps. No one, and I mean absolutely no one, actually wanted to be the one to give out a denial because of this exact reasonings. If you don't give a reason, then they will get upset. If you give a vague reason, they'll be upset. If their writing simply isn't up to par, they take it as a personal attack, so you then need to come up with a reason so they don't get upset. If they don't put enough effort into it, they also take it as a personal attack, so you then need to come up with a reason so they don't get upset. If their OOC behavior is bad, congratulations, same issue. If you give advice, and they take this advice as "you will get it if you do this" then get denied again, congratulations, they now feel cheated. If you give advice that's too vague, they are- you guessed it- now upset.

Oh, and God forbid you disagreed with the decision and now you're the one getting yelled at, complained to, and asked 'why?'.

It came to the point where I personally felt like denial responses were better written with not getting the player pissed off in mind rather than actual helpfulness factor, and knowing that that was a futile effort despite that. Even when players took it well and were hopeful, you still knew they were disappointed and just didn't say anything.

I enjoyed helping the system along so that people wouldn't feel like they were waiting ten years for responses, but damn was it such an unnecessarily stressful and draining experience to have to deal with everything.

[Mouse]

I don't have much of a dog in this but I think a restructuring of where certain hiddens lie, or just an updated list of masters/mythics/etc etc would be much appreciated.

Having Spectral Sight (a 5 ap toggle) locked me out of getting a different aura that was also listed as a master, and was cited as part of the reason for my denial. I don't have a problem with it, but the sheer power difference between a lot of them in the same tier feels.. Bizarre, to me.

I look at Drakanites and see their wing toggle, and then realize part of my denial was because I had one that was much, much worse overall, it makes me think, overall, that I'm being partly punished for following my IC and going for something else first instead of another listed master.

This is, again, not a dig at any admin or the system in general, it's fine, I probably would have been denied regardless, but the fact that Spectral sits in the same tier as things that even appmins have told me are "held to a higher standard" while literally being listed in the same..

Just needs the list updated, or a restructuring of how they're handled, I think.

[Ohverride]

I had the fortune in recent times to speak with an admin about where I could improve on my last denial. This current system is miles away better than the initial. In the initial, it was "lol, you don't make the cut, kid!" And that was that. Here, I've been able to ask "hey, so what CAN I do to really make it?" and I've gotten a response.

Shout out to OBC for helping me push through to my recent approval, I imagine I'll go through the same song and dance again. I think I do agree with IotaSilver on one part, though. For characters, sometimes small little things like telepathy can be a path to starting a storyline. I think maybe there's this expectation that you have to have an already great story or so a bunch of stuff to get specific things, which is good for making sure randos don't snatch stuff up, but also...

It makes it hard to really CONTINUE that character's story. I know when I got strong, I didn't want to butt in on other people's stories with my, what. Two sigs and such. It's a whole give and take thing, but I will say the new system has only done good and we can only go up from here. There needs to maybe be more of a give and take understanding though, and again like IotaSilver mentioned, maybe more leniency on how certain abilities can be developed.

Like. There's abilities in the game that literally rely on lore from E2 or E3 and you're limited to a paragraph if that of some specific family line from then that did a thing. Like, okay. No? Anyways, yeah.

(I personally have had no issues with apps, I have been denied for things and then amended them.)

[Chance]

Why are some players of the community who do apply for things after.... let's see. Hours, and hours of their time. Amounting to days, weeks, months even, of their characters life/story being told things like....

"Your story isn't significant"

"Your development is too basic"

I don't think these quotes have ever been used as actual replies/feedback so when you're basing your entire point off of it it's difficult to take in earnest, dramatized rather than helpful. That said we aren't going to sugar coat reasonings, especially when there are hundreds of replies needed each week; there's only so much back and forth you can do, and like Grey expressed, it's often going to be walking on eggshells.

At that point it's easier to be blunt/cut and dry. The alternative is going back to where replies weren't guaranteed. Or are much slower/take far more time for an answer.

My advice, as usual, is to not bother with requesting things if you aren't OK with bluntly being told no. It's why the system is designed to require little of your time to make the request in the first place, and why there are also countless other avenues of character progression. Honestly a large percentage of requests shouldn't be made in the first place, but I understand people wanting to throw something to see what sticks.

Personally I'll give feedback where it's possible, but most of the time the person will ask what they could do and you're left scratching your head. Advice isn't easy unless you're especially aware of their personal plots; you can't really help. You're just the messenger, because there were 4 votes for denial rather than approval, and that's that, there's nothing much to say if they do appeal or reply besides 'not there yet'. I think it's easier when they clearly have a ton of investment and are hitting high notes, but at that point they're already on the right path anyway.

[Sharrayzen]

I really wanted to avoid making a thread and/or commenting because my applications still will be at the mercy of those I could offend in giving my perspective, but it is what it is.

I was denied for the third time today for something being developed since November of 2023 as their first signature; and it is Sight.
Following OBC advise to submit an appeal, I was tempted to create a thread much like this. From my second denial earlier this year, I had done a ticketed appeal that was met with being told to not pursue what my character has been actively pursuing since her teenage years.


Having read other peoples comments on their experiences and Grey's on the flip side, I've come to understand why the denial stings the most. Sure, it could feel like personal slights in feeling like it wasn't good enough by their standards. Personally, I think it is the feeling of having your time as a player wasted. In my case, two months of my time at that time. On the flip, I understand the counterargument of perspective: the denial just means there's more time invested for the higher chance of the next application. This is fair.

However, it only gets worse the more denials you face subsequently. Being on my third, it is especially rough and demotivating. On this thread, there's the denial reason of not being 'relevant' enough. While I can understand scrutiny and wanting people actively stirring the pot on a grand scale, but as players of a collective game there should still be the universal understanding that those characters are the heroes or villains of their own stories in their development. Is my take on it.

Ultimately, I've resolved to just continue do as I am and make forth an additional effort. Not in an effort for the development towards what I sought, but in copium to reignite what I found fun.