General Application Suggestion. Alongside some concerns.

[Shanal]

Also, on a slightly tangential note, with the advent of rush dungeons and etc, I’m leaning towards the “get a master sig for free for hitting RPL 230” to be a somewhat bad thing. Especially when I have seen people pivot from doing little to nothing, only to grind out PvE content and suddenly they’re 230 and have a sig now by default— this may be me waving my cane at the air after having to get approved via forum across all 3 of my major, “main” characters (Harper— Holy Lightning, Na’Ria— Nullification, Imperfect, Shevaun— Nephilim, Wayfinding Warp, mind you this was when being a Nephilim at all was a role app to just have the heritage and a separate app to awaken, which seems to have fallen out of favor now that form apps and emporiums are more prevalent than ever), but it feels kind of bad to see people waving around masters and even mythics for a seemingly “by-default” deserving quality.

I'm personally just not a big fan of the "If you have a Master already, you can upgrade it into Mythic" thing.

Kinda think Mythics should be limited to apps and stuff.

But that could just be me. Don't think it's a big issue or anything either way

[GSM]

I'm personally just not a big fan of the "If you have a Master already, you can upgrade it into Mythic" thing.

Kinda think Mythics should be limited to apps and stuff.

But that could just be me. Don't think it's a big issue or anything either way

Definitely not just you, I also feel this way.

What also gets me is that sigs you already have as a master can be upgraded to a mythic, or refunded for something different that you want that’s a tier higher. And if the leap in logic from one master to a different mythic is too great, or you already have a master sig that’s heavily part of your IC, no dice.

And if you had a mythic beforehand, then you hit 230? Sorry, you can’t get anything.

With players that have genuinely 2 or even 3 sigs now running around, it’s somewhat disheartening knowing that some characters are just flat going to get a sig in due time, whereas others, like myself, had to dedicate themselves to a grind for a single signature— doubly so for those that didn’t have to worry about shooting in an app on the forum, rather than the form, for their signature apps to be considered, which took at least 10x the time to do because of the nightmare of log scrounging (you never built that habit of saving logs as scenes finish, did you?).

Mythics definitely need to be far more scrutinized with this system in place, and when I see someone with a sig that I haven’t encountered before, my thoughts at first were “they must be genuinely important!”, and now it’s more “oh, so they’re 230”.

TL;DR, my feelings on the longevity incentive is:

[Oicha]

Already wasn't a fan of this thread. Looked through my old apps, never once was told anything near 'Too simple/basic' or 'Not important enough as a character' Even on my literal pacifist character that was my first character. I got dark guardian being a pacifist man. It really do just be about how you dev things.

And now it's devolving into the argument of, "This has hard for me, and I didn't like it. So moving forward I hope they don't fix the issues and keep it difficult for everyone else."

A lil wack if u ask me (u did ask me)

Though I will say I only found out because of this thread that Masters upgrade to Mythics for free at 230, maybe we don't do that one. Or find an alternative, like restructuring signature classifications. But thats not for this thread.

[DragonDarklyDreaming]

I definitely had some -old- applications that had the phrasing that basically came down to 'you don't have enough presence'. (I think that was actually the wording used)
But that hasn't been the case in a while, to be honest. Things have been pretty good from my personal experience.

That being said, there's definitely some awkwardness when it comes to certain abilities blocking certain other abilities. I had, for example, holyfire. It's an -amazing- aura, utterly ridiculous! And so I apped for Scorch when it was still 'missing'... And was denied because I had a signature already. Which uh.... Was a bit confusing?

Likewise, I have had -many- friends get denied a 'second sig' because they had spirit sight, which is often touted as being a 'requirement' to be a Spiritmancer. Spirit sight is a 5% AP toggle... Not insignificant by any means buuuuuuuuuut...

The Drak toggle is literally stronger.

Where do things such as golemancy and such come in then? Interesting lore but mechanically extremely weak? Not knowing what can 'lock you out' of things has caused some people to be hesitant about pursuing some of the more interesting 'flavor' abilities, because they don't want to be 'locked out' of something genuinely useful in combat. After all, doesn't matter how interesting your character is and how well-liked they are, it only takes one powerful character to wreck your day for it all to come crashing down. Everyone has to keep in mind their combat potential even if they don't want to be a combatant.

[Bazzito]

Hello! Beyond the discussion that has been formed, I would like to give some advice and experiences I had doing applications in the past:




At the time I quite appreciated the response and read it several times. It went from being an ignorant in apps to noticing me more experienced (although I still make ugly posts haha).

And looking back at my Kure Avincus app I can say that I would definitely repeat those five tips again!! Also, I understand that applications have a lot of logs so there are times when I highlight an important RP (like war ones or a very strong development), for example:





Something that has been very helpful to me is how the influence of a character or group can affect so much in a positive way. I was fortunate enough to play with Chance and Epoch and definitely what changed Kure's development the most were the challenges and goals they gave him (and other great influences like Amorian). So, if you're a new character or a fairly experienced character, give your companions, apprentices or whatever clear objectives. You don't know how much you can influence the development of their stories!

One tip I was given was to save the recent log and write in your app about, then save it. That way constantly. You'll be fresh after a scene!

Although I think the most important thing, and what I stress to my closest Meranthe friends, is to have a polite attitude especially in ooc and looc. Mostly so as not to disturb other people's experience, and even to improve ourselves as people.

[Horos]

As someone that has been in both sides of the coin, I can tell you that I don't see ever being a balance people enjoy from the admin system. In exchange of facilitating the process and making it more friendly (time/comprehension) wise, we lost somethings that were important, but we have encountered different issues. No matter what process you prefer both have advantages and disadvantages.

In one side, you have the admin team. A limited amount of people that have to handle an obscene amount of applications in their free time. Time is always tickling, you have to reply fast, and all of it together isn't easy. Besides, the easier apps get and the more 'UI' friendly or whatever they get, the least content you have to improve in the feedback but at the same time is quicker times which allows you more window to improve on it.

On the other side, you have the player. Honestly, as players and as writers to the game, we often glaze our stories in our head because we can see the full picture which not everyone can see. Those around us/the admin team only see the small fragments that you offer them, and sometimes, we don't give them the fragments that would make it shine the most. The other side being, that, like everything, you have to sell your story. You have to make those around you and the admin team see it and understand why and what you are aiming for, which isn't something everyone does well.

So, in other words. I don't think there's a happy way to satisfy everyone. 
Have fun with whatever little you can grasp and try to find a way to improve what you can enough to make you satisfied with your actions.

[magicschoolbusdropout]

Okay, So I do not reply to these very often. I wasn't planning on it either BUT and here is the BUT to say that the basic card has NOT been said is false. The fact I was afraid to say anything in general because of fear of Backlash is ridiculous. Its also the fact of that is why A LOT of people do not speak  up if out of fear they will get back lash and wont get anything approved at all. I will say I have two sides to this and I will post one that I believe is the correct way to respond and the wrong way

The right way:

There is a nice response gave what they wanted to see. Altogether a good way to respond.

The bad way:

I understand there was a 'response' to what it should be but seeing as there was logs that showed what the first ticket wanted then also had extra of HELPING someone else learn as well. Had already Rp'ed doing it as well. This is one of the EASIER things to get in my opinion and when you see kids who are Icly like 12/14 with the same thing you are trying to go for and they went the same route and got it approved it is VERY discouraging.

To say you have never told anyone their development was basic is a lie. It is seen in other post to is the way tickets get responded to NEEDS to change. Its not cool at all. I can speak for many other when I say the fact that  we sit there for days, weeks, even months working on one thing just to be told out dev was not good enough is not cool. To be told that we are not significant enough in the world for our dev to matter.

I do not mind being told I was denied for something. Though to be told my dev was to basic was ridiculous in its self and I have had things I deved for told back to me that my dev was not good enough because they wanted to see more of a world significance for it. That to me is bullshit. If you have been working and putting in time and effort it should not be made to be a WORLD significance when its significant to OUR characters. The game is not to please everyone else with your development but to please yourself and to please those around you that may have helped to accomplish that development.

I am not bashing anyone here either this is just me flat out saying there is nice ways to respond to tickets even if you arent 'sugar coating' it. You can not sugar coat things and still make it sound respectful. Now my rants over.

[Chance]

 say you have never told anyone their development was basic is a lie. It is seen in other post to is the way tickets get responded to NEEDS to change. Its not cool at all. I can speak for many other when I say the fact that  we sit there for days, weeks, even months working on one thing just to be told out dev was not good enough is not cool. To be told that we are not significant enough in the world for our dev to matter.

I do not mind being told I was denied for something. Though to be told my dev was to basic was ridiculous in its self and I have had things I deved for told back to me that my dev was not good enough because they wanted to see more of a world significance for it. That to me is bullshit. If you have been working and putting in time and effort it should not be made to be a WORLD significance when its significant to OUR characters. The game is not to please everyone else with your development but to please yourself and to please those around you that may have helped to accomplish that development.

It seems like you are misconstruing both replies.

Nobody told you that you need 'world impact' or 'more world significance' here: both attempts for Wayfinding were just way below the standard set. Your development was confined to 4 (?) logs of lesson/self-study (which is fine, yes it's 'basic' but that doesn't make it bad), and for an advanced ability like Wayfinding a little extra is expected beyond this foundation. This could be something like travelling the world and studying important sights/working to place runes on memorable locations, or group activities that challenge the learner, etc etc. Some spice and creative storytelling! Character growth, flavorful spins and the like! This is of course up to the person on how they challenge themselves and grow from it.

I also left the ticket open for a few days in case you needed some guidance here. Instead you are cherry picking a word and spinning it into a negative. Maybe ask what's perceived to be basic about it, or some elaboration if you're unsure on how to follow OBC's original advice as well as my suggestions.

I'm not saying my reply was ideal, but communication is a two way street. Word choices aside it's important to have a conversation when you want more from the other side!



Curiously it appears you also edited out the second part of the reply for some reason in the screenshot supplied to Vibe. I'm not gonna accuse you of lying like you did with me for forgetting that the word basic was used, but it sure seems like an attempt to vent outrage while not supplying the full context. I don't know if having this discussion is helpful or necessary, but there's no harm in it so it is what it is.

& with that in mind, I will try to be a bit more insightful/detailed in future ability replies. OBC's are definitely more helpful overall and mine can be a touch lazy, mostly when trying to get through the backload as they're carrying out the vast majority of messages (which isn't ideal, it needs to spread more among the team). Will work on it!

[magicschoolbusdropout]

 say you have never told anyone their development was basic is a lie. It is seen in other post to is the way tickets get responded to NEEDS to change. Its not cool at all. I can speak for many other when I say the fact that  we sit there for days, weeks, even months working on one thing just to be told out dev was not good enough is not cool. To be told that we are not significant enough in the world for our dev to matter.

I do not mind being told I was denied for something. Though to be told my dev was to basic was ridiculous in its self and I have had things I deved for told back to me that my dev was not good enough because they wanted to see more of a world significance for it. That to me is bullshit. If you have been working and putting in time and effort it should not be made to be a WORLD significance when its significant to OUR characters. The game is not to please everyone else with your development but to please yourself and to please those around you that may have helped to accomplish that development.

It seems like you are misconstruing both replies.

Nobody told you that you need 'world impact' or 'more world significance'. Your development was confined to 4 (?) logs of lesson/self-study (which is fine, yes it's 'basic' but that doesn't make it bad), and for an advanced ability like Wayfinding a little extra is expected. This could be something like travelling the world and studying important sights/working to place runes on memorable locations, or group activities that challenge the learner, etc etc. Some spice and creative storytelling!

I also left the ticket open for a few days in case you needed some guidance here. Instead you are cherry picking a word and spinning it into a negative. Maybe ask what's perceived to be basic about it, or some elaboration if you're unsure on how to follow OBC's original advice as well as my suggestions.

I'm not saying my reply was ideal, but communication is a two way street. Word choices aside it's important to have a conversation when you want more from the other side!

A little extra is expected I understand that but When there was logs as i said 1- the classes themselves, 2-doing it on my own, 3- Teaching/helping someone else with their dev to get wayfinding themself. I appreciate you keeping the ticket open however I also had taken a few days off of the game around that time and did not see you had posted. The main  focus of my post is to say that the WAY it was responded to could be better. There were better ways to put is as you have said your response was not ideal. The rest was an added onto that which I do stand by what I said. As for saying I 'lied' there was no lie in there when there was still proof of being told it was 'basic' there was as I said 'better' ways to put tickets then saying its 'basic'. Its a difference when it is said that it was 'never said'

[VibeEntertainment]

 Your development was confined to 4 (?) logs of lesson/self-study (which is fine, yes it's 'basic' but that doesn't make it bad), and for an advanced ability like Wayfinding a little extra is expected beyond this foundation.

My thoughts on the above are as I said before, compared to what is said now below.


This could be something like travelling the world and studying important sights/working to place runes on memorable locations, or group activities that challenge the learner, etc etc. Some spice and creative storytelling! Character growth, flavorful spins and the like! This is of course up to the person on how they challenge themselves and grow from it.

This snip above is like... so helpful it's not even funny. Being told this goes a massive way compared to anything else. Yes, it's not said often. But it's said at some points and hits the motivation of the person when they're trying to appeal to you guys. Not everyone has that creative storytelling knack that others have. It's clear as day, myself included. I -suck- at writing really unique things most of the time. My stuff is basic, my stuff is bland and doesn't deserve this hidden. Sure, I know that. Do I need to be -told- that? No.

Though, again. I appreciate what was said here in regards to... the ticket and lacking context on it. I wasn't shown the entire thing nor do I know the entire happenings behind it as I mentioned before the other day. I just feel like how you speak to someone at all points is what counts here. People in the community are here because they love this game. We return to it after bans because we love this game. To hear that we try our own way and y'know.. yeah... a demotivating response hits hard is all it should really come down to.

Calling people liars. Isn't needed. We're not here for that. We're here to discuss and address something that *Is* affecting people. Hence the topic in my initial point... How things are said to people. Denying someone 50 billion times is FINE. Just motivate the community. That's all. The same way you empower us with your stories is the same way we can do the same for you, y'know?