The Current State of Eternias Meta

[sweetchilisauce]

Personally, I am very fond of allowing the community to express their creativity when it comes to building.

I don't think it should be frowned upon that a player came up with an ingenious idea to shake up the meta. Taking risks, should be rewarded in my opinion -- as opposite to popular belief, I believe the current meta of the game isn't as bad as so many claim it to be.

Obviously, in the past, we've had 'mainstream builds' over the lifespan of Eternia. I could list a few of the top of my head:

- TK3 users
- Shield stacking Ether Fomo Drakanite armed
- Homings centered builds (E-Girls builds)
- Full Agi / Crit
- Lightspeed + Stun 
- Cosmic Metal
- Full Fire
- Etc...

But when it comes to E4, in this current date -- I... don't see the 'meta' as so many people seem to claim...? Some will complain about Bio trees, some about Summoning -- yet -- in all my fights, I don't think I have seen two same builds yet.

We can look at the tournament yesterday. It felt like everyone had their little thing going on, and honestly, it felt kind of... great?

So what is all this fuss about?

Do we want to restrict people to favour the so-called IC builds (no more than 2-3 trees or you're a stinky powergamer) or do we want the community to express their creativity?

Personally? I'm for the latter.

I don't think we should put any restrictions on builds, on the amount of invulnerabilities you can have or whatsoever -- on the opposite, I think Eternia's primary focus should be providing more public spells, more tools for the people to come up with clever and creative builds.

This game has existed for so many years. They are so many trees that could be dug back from the past and be reworked to meet today's standards. 

If you set restrictions, you'll narrow down the meta. There will be no different paths to achieve success -- but one highway builds that will undoubtedly get nerfed after too many people used it.

TL;DR : Don't restrict, give more opportunities instead.

[Detective100]

Something like adding a cap of 2 immunities/shields on hotbar (labelled defensive spells?) & adding more immunities (f.ex Twister could be one, or at least a better Shield) and improving the underused shields could be good. Then we're free to add as many defensive spells as we want to the spell trees without fear of stacking.

Honestly, I think if anything lightning embodiment should be the immunity move.

Twister is already the better move out of the two due to lower CD, slightly higher damage, and the fact it cleanses slows.  Making lightning embodiment an invuln move (With appropriate modifications such as its damage that it won't be busted) can be a good start.

Edit: Also, having it be lightning embodiment will mean that you won't be able to spend 20 rpp for an inulnerability with twister, compared to the 40 rpp you'll need to spend for lightning embodiment.

[Egomaniacal]

Shadow-walk.
It’s time for me to declare my enmity for this spell in a well-conducted and collected manner.

Ahem.

It shouldn’t be a basic.
Shadow walk dippers be damned, hell, damn shadow users.
Except when I use it.

[ForgetTheUnknown]

Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use invuln, then limit the invulns. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

[Illfort]

Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use immunes, then limit the immunes. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

This. Immunes wouldn't be needed if the 5 sec CC combo into a deathtrap didn't exist. Yes, you can solve this by getting a cleanse but why would you get a cleanse if you can just get an immune which is superior?

[Zilly]

I dunno why you'd dip for shadow-walk instead of mist form if you need an invul. Mistforms an opener after all.

[ForgetTheUnknown]

Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use immunes, then limit the immunes. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

This. Immunes wouldn't be needed if the 5 sec CC combo into a deathtrap didn't exist. Yes, you can solve this by getting a cleanse but why would you get a cleanse if you can just get an immune which is superior?

I misworded, I meant invulnerables.

[Mald]

Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use immunes, then limit the immunes. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

Armed cannot be argued against, even if it's mainstreamed. Armed is supposed to be extremely common especially when you consider how Eternia is a whole imo. Adding new spells take time and each update they roll out more new ones. The 'too weak/support' trees I'm assuming wellspring/nature are two trees that have been performing extremely well.

[ForgetTheUnknown]

Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use immunes, then limit the immunes. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

Armed cannot be argued against, even if it's mainstreamed. Armed is supposed to be extremely common especially when you consider how Eternia is a whole imo. Adding new spells take time and each update they roll out more new ones. The 'too weak/support' trees I'm assuming wellspring/nature are two trees that have been performing extremely well.

Armed has completed its spell ui (or dmi whatever), nature completed its spell cap, wellspring is fine. I meant other trees that should have some more spells in general. Just to promote diverse builds EVEN FURTHER. Not to say its a bad state right now, I meant, like as a way to add more to it.

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Personally, we should start nerfing spells that actually require you to use immunes, then limit the immunes. So it isnt mandatory to use. And as somebody else stated, bringing back some polished old spells would be nice. I know theres a dmi limit for spell trees (( think the maximum is 12???), just start giving public trees at least maximum of 9-10 spells for more build diversity for the smaller sub trees that are deemed "too weak/support". Instead of a mainstream "gotta do full armed, gotta do full X and Y Z Spell tree"

Armed cannot be argued against, even if it's mainstreamed. Armed is supposed to be extremely common especially when you consider how Eternia is a whole imo. Adding new spells take time and each update they roll out more new ones. The 'too weak/support' trees I'm assuming wellspring/nature are two trees that have been performing extremely well.

Irrelevant question to the main thread (dont strike me down admin) but whats ur discord so we can chat about the meet up icly. I forgot to ask earlier. I thought I texted you.

[Sanguine415]

Shrimply put, DR stacking has been an issue since spires. Never forget the glorious combination of dragon scales and fomorian stance allowing 100% DR (Sors still did plink damage through it but he was built different.)

I think Chance is on the right path here as far as limiting the amount of defensive abilities you can bar. People can pick their poison, as it were. Some might argue this limits "build variety" and doesn't allow memetic potential with purely defensive builds, but at the end of the day, it should never be a chore to fight someone. Difficult, yes, high stakes? Certainly. But not a miserable experience for one side or the other. Besides, it takes minimal skill to use defensive abilities, it takes far more to actually land spells in the heat of battle. More risk and a need for more risk will lead to a healthier meta overall.