Episodic Eternia

[GrayHood]

Osrona is not empty now, same applies to Nysea. SOME Osronian character are not welcome to Nysea, and SOME Nyseans are not welcome in Osrona, but mostly you can travel between other settlements.

[Hunts Alone]

No I'm pretty sure all Nyseans are banned from Osrona, but chances are they won't know you're Nysean unless u mention it or have done anything relevant within the city that they'd know you're from there.

[Tattles]

First, I am glad to see a lot of people sharing their thoughts. Like I mentioned in the first post I really wanted to see this conversation happen, even if it was one many disagreed with. I also agree with the idea that more time is needed to really gauge anything (NPCing low population factions included), especially something as controversial as this. It would be a massive change to what I think many have known the game to be for a very long time, and I only brought it up as the current system in my mind is often shakier than it needs to be.

I didn't play E1 nor have I played any other wipe-style byond games. I come from a tabletop DND background where my friends and I did multiple campaigns with DMs swapping around, and though each campaign was its own narrative story, setting, and cast, we had a running history and connective thread between almost each one of them, which was more or less where this idea came from. It allowed us to explore a far larger area of an imaginative universe while also creating that legacy feeling of a collective history of collaboration.

My time playing Spires and Esshar now has been a time of ups and downs, in really any sense of the thought. I have had weeks where I rushed home to hop on and see the action unfolding and other days where I log in and sit on a bench like anyone else waiting and waiting for anything exciting to occur, only to have realized eight hours had gone by and the only thing I've done is see a demon get used as a punching bag for someone else's development or I made small talk with someone next to me. 

Maybe there's another conversation to be had instead of this one, something that encourages players to push the envelope more. I don't intend to sound harsh, but I mentioned in my first post:

unfortunately having the view of an admin and being able to see the full board and all of its pieces, it doesn’t appear to me as though anyone is picking up that mantle that Asta, Alexander/Serea, or Sythaeryn left behind.

In Spires the spire shards were used for massive projects that quite literally shaped the arc they were a part of. We have the same item only renamed with new fluff, and instead of seeing a Deathstar, a Riftgate, or whatever else, we have had I believe 5 Chiron shards total.

2 were eaten in a haha meme.
2 were turned into white oils.
1 turned into a Teraphim (this one was me, admittedly)

Maybe I missed a sixth or a seventh, but that's only because whatever they were used for was so inconsequential and single minded that what has been given to the world as the ultimate form of a dev mat vanished into the ether for someone's personal benefit.

There is so much more to this game than winning your verbs and maxing your stats and healing your perms and getting your hiddens. You can dream so much bigger than I think anyone realizes. It just takes the effort and motivation to see it through. It takes the ability not to throw a fit when you lose or when you are denied something. It takes something that I just don't see in front of me right now.

[Konaa]

I do feel like this would ultimately be more of a band-aid than a permanent solution. the reason why rp slows and scatters is the sense of division and danger in the no man's land. also: war. war loses its impact when it happens commonly enough. it just gets exhausting, and people start to drop because everything's miserable. i do not really think people need active warfare to find reasons to conflict and engage themselves.

hard cap the settlements - have minor structures in the wilderness to add flavor and fill in the gaps, but make the Big Centers of Rp just one or two - maybe 3. of course, i was a big fan of ultra-osrona and wish we were still on that, but failing that, limit spreading the playerbase around as much as possible and encourage people to expand upon what exists rather than strike out to make their own clubhouse.

while it's not quite the same as an anime game rip, since history and the setting don't change, the permanence and steady flow of time was one of the things that made eternia stand out. players making the history is this game's signature, and i feel as if timeskipping does away with that.

also, these days it feels like characters barely make it to 35, so i don't know if they really outstay their welcome anymore...

[Jumpy]

As someone who's seen a lot of the wipe structure being employed, be it very fast (weekly/bi-weekly), fast (monthly), and lengthy (5-6 months), I feel like I should put in my thoughts.

Oddly enough out of all of those formats the very, very fast paced weekly/bi-weekly wipes of BLH were genuinely fine because everyone knew there would be a wipe soon. Death wasn't as dramatic as you kept your stats and basically got a race+name change and that was it. Of course we were all kids and this may be nostalgia as well as innocence playing into it but incredibly fast wipes does work.

That being said every other length sucks. Monthly or so wipes end with the same few people rotating into the spotlight every wipe and because they don't really have a downtime when they die, as another wipe surges soon, they go back into the spotlight. It's unhealthy and only thrives off of offshooting wipe ideas and settings.

Five/Six months wipes are horrible. People play for the beginning of it, they have fun, they have goals, they apply for something and proceed to not get it, or not get enough over a timeskip they expected to get a lot from. And quickly quit, knowing that there'll be a wipe if enough people quit. It kills motivation and invites people to only play if they've made Day 1 characters. It sucks. It's episodic and can follow its own canon but it'll always suck to join 1-2 months in because you'll just never be as important. Any dip in population means it's the end because everyone knows there'll be a wipe. No one clings on, no one perseveres knowing that things will just pick back up eventually. People don't just 'come back' as a group after they've had a new idea.

tl;dr wipes suck.

If you introduce episodic stories you end up with people literally just quitting whenever they dislike an IC situation rather than finding a solution around it or fighting it back. Vampires? If they're not the story of the wipe people quit. Demi-Angels? Same story. And you have to make those races an open race if you remotely want people to play your episodic story, because why would I want to play a normal-ass human in a 2-3 month wipe where 7 chosen people play quarter angels, only for two of said chosen ones to AFK right off the bat. It's a common thing to see on Eternia for people to apply for something, get it, and AFK.

Episodic Eternia would introduce people literally deciding they'll come back in 4 months because they were told that their application for X hidden would be better for Y hidden, and that they're approved for the latter.

Coming from a place where I've seen wipes go from 70 active players in 2 factions drop down to 30 active players because a third faction of 8 players was made (mind you 4 of those were still actively in their former faction RPing and no one knew they had betrayed) I fear people mass-quitting because they don't like an idea, or a leader, or a new spell, or something being strong, or someone having something that they weren't even going to go for but the idea of that person having something at all makes them so mad they just don't want to play.

Episodic Eternia as an idea saddens me. I'd much rather have a race plopped down as an arc ends so that my character who's seen all tons of shit gets to experience more. Length lives promote this feeling of "this is my story" rather than "I am a henchman in this setting". Going from seeing wraiths and nethradins to meeting a literal angel to watching nations go at war, betrayal happen, demons be kinder than you'd think, quarter angels being born, miracles happening, and so forth makes anyone feel like they've experienced a real life when their character dies or drifts into afk.

That's my opinion.

[rea]

for the first time ever the words "jumpy is right" have been forced to be strung together

[Peep 'Puff' Topia]

In Spires the spire shards were used for massive projects that quite literally shaped the arc they were a part of. We have the same item only renamed with new fluff, and instead of seeing a Deathstar, a Riftgate, or whatever else, we have had I believe 5 Chiron shards total.

2 were eaten in a haha meme.
2 were turned into white oils.
1 turned into a Teraphim (this one was me, admittedly)

Maybe I missed a sixth or a seventh, but that's only because whatever they were used for was so inconsequential and single minded that what has been given to the world as the ultimate form of a dev mat vanished into the ether for someone's personal benefit.

Spire Shards were never a big deal.

I must have pissed through at least 20 Spire Shards between the two Spire's Characters I had (Veyer, Pasis). They were rare, but not uncommon enough as Chiron tends to be.

It felt like every other week I was buying a Spire Shard for some weird potion or white oil.

Spire Shards were almost never used for big important projects; you only remember the big ones because they, fittingly, were worth remembering.

[rea]

they were a very big deal at first but then became much more common. you only remember them being common because valmasia literally had a broken spawn of them and you guys got to keep like 6

[Peep 'Puff' Topia]

on pasis alone i pissed through at least 10

[Laemor]

What i listened to while writing this....

As someone whose played for years and made attempts at doing more than the average. I'd feel pretty sad to see the game fall into an /Arc/ system. In reality? It doesn't do much to assist the community or even inspire much hope for the games longevity.

Not saying that a new style of game-play shouldn't be warranted. But all these issues can & could've been solved in prior iterations. But from my perspective? Here are a few key things we've lost in the progress of the games development. Unspoken rules, guidelines many followed that allowed each version to thrive.

E1

- City destruction was never possible, nor settlement growth. 

*Outside a few RARE cases and I mean. EXTREMELY RARE. That being, Alteros, home to oscuri than mimics... And the desert land, which was so far off from the map? It did well. You could say the cyclopes camp was something, but if anything? It was just for props and served as a fun moment for events/wars.*

- Once you hit a certain tier of strength? Roaming became frowned upon. 

*This is something that really should return to some degree. One of the mains MAJOR issues are the fact that, unless you're highly motivated? Becoming noticed is nearly impossible and for some? It's the moment of BECOMING noticed that they gain the motivation to reach for higher. So how does roaming come into play? Well, once upon time Esshar was at each others throat... It made being /the little man/. Important... Because you ran into other lower tiered people, divided by loyalties to nation, people, evils or goods... There was less a fear of running into some overwhelming force. Or maybe it was because back then? We had more manners... There wasn't a danger buff a lot less mechanics. Really, in E1? People were more civilized towards the lives of others and story overall.*

- Waging war, wasn't free... 

*I remember chance used to make something close to a state of Valmasia. Except it detailed a cities forces, foods, civilians. Progress... There were also plenty of moments where a city was given EC's or Mass Summonings for the sack of conflict. Simply to display a cities overwhelming might compared to another. Yeah, at times it felt plot controlled, but in reality? It also gave life... It gave people the knowledge that if they slacked around in their city and did nothing? Than it'd be at a clear disadvantage to another. That by proxy? Gave birth to sights like PERSONAL city events... Ones where EVERYONE IN A SINGLE SETTLEMENT WERE IN. Those were fun times... Even if plot deviced. EVERYONE, felt like they were a part of something bigger than themselves OR? forced to clean up someone elses mess. Which allowed downtime to be filled in with the internal strife and conflict for those pushing the boundaries one step further than normal. Examples?*

Ehren Kien/Charlie *something I think food rp'd them*/Alanai's Kien who led a rebellion/Eod's Avharain that drove him to become rivals with kokb'ael, slayed xezbeth to rule two cities in disguise/Etc... A lot of those moments are lost, they occur, but so rarely now-a-days.

E2

Spires maintained a lot of what Eternia was truly about in the aspect of settlements. City growth and a flow of things stringing along together properly between nations. By this? Despite the constant state of war Spires felt to always be in? It held true to the nature in which every nation strived to live by. The clear differences were apparent between, Gehenna/Valmasia/Jianghu. Outside the clear crusading nature, alot of cities sought to better themselves before going into war. Looking to see, EVERYONE, doing something or living the proper *life of w.e. nation they're in*

Since spires was the birth of spire-shards which now are called, Chiron? I'll start with that.

- Spire Shards & Chiron were a bad idea

*Hear me out on this one... Back in Eternia? Something of that magnitude never existed as a /single all knowing item/. White oil? To my knowledge was Originally created through a different more difficult method which expanded over a more than a couple of ic years. Ever since items such as spire-shards & chirons came into existences? It inspired the wrong mentality. YES! you can do ALMOST ANYTHING, with those items. But...

They require extremely difficult events, getting events for some? Are already a hassle which means a times people will see the bias in a select few getting even admins sometimes to Host another persons chiron event. Some people also acknowledge that instead of using it on some IC device? They can instead use it for themselves to make something extremely powerful. White oils included. 

*Back in eternia? Since there wasn't any true crafting... People had to be extremely imaginative with their works. You could truly tell when someone was a blacksmith or alchemist... Because there wasn't typically any coin involved. They were all IC transactions between people & dev items. Hell, people would even just go out of their way to pretend adventures to gather pretend things for the sake of creating something in an APP. I've done it before! Arcons + Druid blood to apply for a custom enchantment on my blade! ANYTHING FELT POSSIBLE BACK THEN. Because there was literally nothing, but our imagine to work with.*

What the game needs? Is less mechanics in their area and somehow a way to point out the endless possibilities one can achieve. Even without going on events. The items we have on the map? They can bring about, anything, should you try hard enough with the right implications. Seeing a spire-shard & chiron? People just go ahead and think... Unless they EVER get one of those items? They'll never be able to do much... That's not always case, it was never the case back in Eternia... The item itself only made us take steps back in the endless ways we can go about things. 

Not saying spire-shards haven't produced good dev, but... Eternia did it better.

- Spires had an overarching goal

*Now while going to the spire-islands RARELY OCCURRED between cities and ONLY HAPPENED towards the end of spires on a GLOBAL SCALE. It gave people, everyone. A clear goal... Get one of those, for yourselves! Or ensure it doesn't fall into the hands of another. 

The game needs something to that degree. As much I hate the items themselves. They could be merely used as plot device. 

Much like how Imperfects upon reaching a certain stage were plot deviced. Capable of threatening the entire world should they reach /Perfection/. Those instances, that logic? Those historical moments with Kok'bael? Are what made yokai scary. Because we actually got to live through a brief instance in LORE HISTORY. Even without a /king-arthur/. Humanity prevailed. Alas, I think going the extra mile would've been an amazing scene as well... One of them ascending. 

Becoming a backdrop villain to impose a new lifestyle...

Either way Barsburg in Esshar could be seen as that. But the main issue here is... Everyone is aligned... Even in spires enemies would gather to ensure a major threat did arise. Afterwards? They went back to hating each other... Of course, overall peace eventually occured. But without an overarching goal to reach for like? It doesn't give many little people a reason to betray others for power... It doesn't provide CHEESY plot at times to flourish, which should be welcomed for the sake of shacking things up... If I made a villain now? What could I truly reach for... I mean, I could come up with athousand reasons of course, but for newer players or people just wanting to change the tempo? Seeing the spire isles icly above Spires was surely something that could motivate both the evil and good in people.*

- Spires had more, internal conflict & growth

*This isn't too hard to touch upon. Seeing as a lot of points could fall back to the many stated above. Seeing as in even in spires? Expanding was difficult. The cities around were the core rp locations. Many people looked to expand the cities themselves or go into the wild if they didn't follow in faith after maybe some radical changes or death of leadership, friends. Etc.

In the time-skip of Esshar. I don't wanna seem like im bragging or anything, but I truly felt like one of the only people actually trying to see his city progress over anything else. I poured easily about half a million or more into the people & buildings. I won't lie, it was rather easy... Since ilburg didn't have much. Developing it into what it was now? Feels like an accomplishment. Since the other cities are a bit more founded. I can't blame EVERYEONE, for not having something to add to the city. But it's rare to see things like...

Basten Enterprises Building... Should've been in way longer... would've done so much more with the alchemy side, but regardless!! The factory was a cool addition and mims shop as well. Osrona, myllenoris.... Not much there, but osrona pretty much had it all already, the underground bar was cool-af doh. Concepts like that? Should be supported by admins as well... Relying solely on the players to do it all? At times just leaves a sour taste, espically when they see admin PC's exploring a lot or doing more. Because it's easier for them to get their hands on things. Simply for the sake of having ooc connections and the likes to people willing to run events. I mean, let's be honest... Being an admin has ooc perks towards how they're treated. Rarely do people stand-up. But that's a whole other issue...

Pressing on however, in Esshar? I feel as though things have become... TOO SECRETIVE, too behind the scenes... And while that's fun for those involved... It's very rare to see even the little guys being put to good use in those case and generally? No matter the era, it's always the same people. Which will also generally leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. Seeing the constant success of another in the form of events or ruler-ship or attention in spotlight. Idk how to exactly solve this without just providing people with some incentives to the LITTLE GUYS. To actually be bold. Cause you gotta remember... People invest so much time into this game? Why should they risk themselves in a single moment, when they can just stand-by & live to see so many more... 

I'd write more, but i'm tired...