Transitioning away from ability apps

[dopamiin]

Signature Progress (PP)
Progress Points: 1 point per EXP, 0.5 point per influence gained. Quests/dungeons do not contribute to this however.

Standout Character: Every 2 weeks, Staff will view the commendations from that period. After a quick discussion, each Staff member selects up to 5 characters based on what they know and the commendations (not the # of them, just using it as insight). Then once selected, in a forum thread those standout characters are highlighted with the commendations quoted (assuming no sensitive info) and granted a +50% Signature PP modifier that lasts for 2 weeks.

Should be 25-30 characters or so nominated bi-weekly for the standout reward. Maybe also include which Staff member chose which characters (though claims of bias perhaps, but I like the transparency). Staff can also include an optional comment, or choose to be anonymous.

So this would more or less replace the current app process/work.

Havoc Modifier: (maybe a different name) Players can declare this via the /havoc command, and it lasts for 3 years. It increases the amount of signature EXP they gain from dangerous+ battles, but also sets them with the Wrath modifier so there's more risk involved in their battles; highlights their name similar to outlaw.

Signature Skill Tree: Make this an in-game skill tree, and provide more purchase options. Signature EXP should be a currency to spend rather than a linear goal; small things that can customize your character (spell recolors, classes, etc) to minor passives and buffs, and then the 'big' buys (Signatures).

Each Skill/buy is assigned a value. So Glorious Inferno might cost 80k PP, but Elemental Fury might cost 30k. Probably a way to upgrade/refund Master tier Signatures (because upgrading/exchanging to Exalted is valid progression). 

The menu itself should be similar to the spell menu but much larger with multiple categories (Auras, Buffs, Passives, Utility, Classes, etc).

It would also probably make sense for the public master spells (purchased via the 2 tokens) to be incorporated into this, so there's not multiple similar systems.

ok im gonna start this post off by saying i think this is a really cool idea in concept but i have a couple of concerns

one of the most obvious and yet probably easiest to solve issues is something like a havoced MB can get an obscene quantity of sig points in an insanely short amount of time with minimal character development required

i also think that having an uncapped system is something to be careful with. i like how RPL is a soft curve that makes smaller and smaller power increases harder and harder to get, so that long time characters dont completely overshadow new ones out of the story; and age dr serves a similar purpose. a system thats directly a linear shop kind of seems to go against this idea? perhaps on certain/most purchases there should be a stacking flat cost increase so that early ones come a lot easier than later ones. the smaller purchases like classes, cosmetics, etc would obviously both be exempt from this tax and not contribute towards it

uhhh i had other thoguhts but i forgor. system seems neat though im excited to see where it goes

[BabyFatJesus]

But MOST egregious is that influence is a resource that can be directly shared between characters with the Give Support command in game.

that's not how it'll work, it's influence you've gained directly- you get more of it the higher your rank, which is part of the deal/purpose. Encourages characters to be ambitious and be rewarded for climbing the rnaks / organizing events for their faction / etc etc for that improved mod, as well as leaders to promote and organize their guild proper if they want to prosper

Glad to hear that! ?

[CountRazgriz]

If the system will purely be mechanical outside Mythics, how will that work for custom stances?

Custom stances are a really cool way to personalize a character, even just through flavor text and the weapon aura, to the degree that they feel almost separate to normal skills. It would be great if theres still a way to obtain one with a master level of cost while not locking yourself out of any other master/exalted.

[Skellytoon]

I think the system you had before was fine besides not giving a way for guildless people to make up for well....Not being in a guild to get influence, it was straight forward and such.

Having it be in-game while would be nice but mean we'd be waiting forever and also it being spendable doesn't quite make sense and might even make it harder. An example being is on one of my characters I have over 100k progress points going off the math you provided, but the majority of that is from my Total EXP which is like 70k, which I've gained over the course of level 180 to level 224, meaning it take a good long while to even reach back up to 30k after buying my exalted. Sure the original idea made it linear but it made everyone equal in my opinion with no long stagnation periods or periods where people go sigless for a loooong time before finally getting one.

The Havoc system SHOULD NOT be a thing, it just encourages the people who are cracked at builds and verbing and makes them more powerful then they already are, like Vlydrax for example. That guy could easily take on multiple people and win, then he'd just be swimming in the xp. Along with the people who are running meta builds rather then builds that fit IC or such. This also makes any race that gets more XP from Dangers (Demons and Magical Beasts) also progress way faster then people who don't, especially Demons who can join guilds and get XP from rping in their settlements.

Classes being apps should stay that way in my opinion, cause most classes are things that reflect or impact your character depending like Necromancy or Faith.

Standout character is nice but we don't live in a perfect world and people are gonna call out favoritsm again and this heavily encourages that in players just commending their friends each week.

Tldr; the system you had before while basic was fine.


Also, I don't think you updated or gave an answer to what level Sword Stances where or Aether, considering their status as Sigs of sort [I.E. needing dev to unlock]. (Unless this was answered in the discord and I just haven't noticed.)

[Jovinic]

I feel the commendation system is completely prone to bias, as players who are much more involved in the main story such as old characters or lorekeepers will definitely pick their closest to partake in such storylines / events. This will cause only those privileged players to be on the spotlight and seen by writing-focused players, which will definitely adhere to the commendation system as fighting / raids is not where they shine.

There is a conflict of interests, and having this bias is not much different than the current problem we have with admin votes for spells.
Which is what we're trying to deviate from.
This bias is not something good, as admins are not omniscient to know everything that's happening will all characters. 
They will have more information about characters they play with.
You see it as good competition, while some players can't even begin to participate in that competition.

In my opinion, from the latest suggestion, I'd just remove this Havoc part and rethink interaction with Commendations.
Or even, just follow a product design approach and rework the system without both of these, to see how it performs first before a complete overhaul.

[mat13295]

I'm sorry but the Havoc system seems so rife for abuse that it should probably be reworked to allow people not in havoc mode to avoid the wrath rolls or just be removed in general. We already have issues with players frothing at the mouth to get their 5 dangers for a token before suddenly never fighting again and i have a feeling this will be similarly gamed.

[Galion]

Signature Progress (PP)
Progress Points: 1 point per EXP, 0.5 point per influence gained. Quests/dungeons do not contribute to this however.

Standout Character: Every 2 weeks, Staff will view the commendations from that period. After a quick discussion, each Staff member selects up to 5 characters based on what they know and the commendations (not the # of them, just using it as insight). Then once selected, in a forum thread those standout characters are highlighted with the commendations quoted (assuming no sensitive info) and granted a +50% Signature PP modifier that lasts for 2 weeks.

Should be 25-30 characters or so nominated bi-weekly for the standout reward. Maybe also include which Staff member chose which characters (though claims of bias perhaps, but I like the transparency). Staff can also include an optional comment, or choose to be anonymous.

So this would more or less replace the current app process/work.

Havoc Modifier: (maybe a different name) Players can declare this via the /havoc command, and it lasts for 3 years. It increases the amount of signature EXP they gain from dangerous+ battles, but also sets them with the Wrath modifier so there's more risk involved in their battles; highlights their name similar to outlaw.

Personally, I love this system.

Standout Character is an interesting idea. However, I think rather then a biweekly status, this should just be a general one rewarded for outstanding performance and roleay during Public Events, War Battles, etc. I think the game needs to steer clear from a style that turns everyday roleplay into something that feels like a competition between players. We shouldn't aim to make the RP game more of an addictive investment.

Alternatively, players should just get voted as Standout upon reaching certain milestones, ex, procced upon a certain commendation count for administrative review.  Something that comes without pushing the idea of an 'Employee of the Month' type feel.

Although even the current system may be a popularity contest, to me atleast, it manages to avoid the feel that I have to continuously work to prove myself to people. For as long as I have been roleplaying on E4, I have dodged that mentality and simply RP'd my characters. Specifically referring to I, because I do not know how other people feel. This is a lot of 'I feel' a certain way in the end.

Havoc Modifier is cool. I think people complaining about the idea are fearmongering a bit too hard. Characters like the aforementioned Vyldrax are rare as hell and you have the ability to flee from them. I think enabling increased threat level, higher risk, higher reward is very cool. In the end, no matter who you are, there is always a challenge. Even if you are topdog, there is always that chance of you encountering a bigger fish, or your builds counter.

I think players should react to havoc modifier threats accordingly: through IC! Bounties, Hunting Parties, Etc!! More conflict! Conflict is joy!

Signature Menu good. I see nothing that needs saying here.

Things I would considering adding: 

Danger+ / Event Requirements to combat signatures. You should be an proven in the field of battle to obtain a great many of these abilities, whether its as a survivalist, a victor, or simply someone who suffers. We should not see low danger Super Magis, when the average Super Magi should know danger at heart. We should not see Death Magi who haven't, well, faced death in repetition to the point it remolds their very essence. We should'nt see Glorious Infernos who sit on the indoors dev couch, rather then becoming a pyre be it good or evil in the world.

Mentorship Improvements allows players to learn Signature Abilities early. Maybe by up to 50% to even 75%. Rather then being something that simply hands players an ability, it puts them in a PP deficit that they will have to work their way out of. In turn, mentorship should be much more widely distributed.

Outlaw / Wanderer Status forgoes the ability to gain influence in settlements completely. Instead, they will gain influence at the rate of a Rank 4 Character in a faction (second from the bottom?) and an increased influence gain from combat. This points to the idea that even those outside of large factions are capable of carving a name for themselves. This would, as said, add in a Wanderer status which may not accumulate danger influence so much. This isn't a complete idea in my head but perhaps one for brainstorming.

Once Outlaw Status is active, the only way to remove it is to be accepted into a large faction.


ok thts all- i love this system improvement and wanted to try and add some constructive thoughts ty!!

[tomorrow's sunshine]

This system is horrible.

I don't like how it ties everything to EXP and influence. If you're factionless, it's 100% just EXP. There's gains and whatnot to sort-of kind-of lessen the EXP required, but even that is wonky because the basis itself is not good. Limiting things to EXP does not promote quality of roleplay; it promotes quantity of roleplay. And it gives an unfair advantage to the crackheads out here who can play the game every single hour of the day and pull off 7 scenes a day (they're not necessarily things of note, mind you)

Madsen's system of merit points is a thousand times better than everything else proposed here as it takes in account quality of scenes, rather than EXP gained. If we're to change the app system (it doesn't need changing btw, except for forum apps), I'd much rather go with what Madsen proposed

[DragonDarklyDreaming]

I liked Madsen's proposal, personally.

Regarding the commends, as someone who commends fairly often? Yeah. I forget it's there. I have to actively remind myself to use it, and then I personally tend to toss it out with dangers. It's rare I ever receive a commend, myself (though when I do, it's often for my fortune telling), because I've had people go 'oh shoot, my commend is on cooldown' or the like. If you're going to tie commends to a better exp progression, I know -I- will be much choosier about who I'm giving it to... Which means if I'm choosier? Others will be too.

[Penguin]

Why is there so much resistance to including the influence system/points into this? It seems like a fair way to reward players who actively support their faction and help it rise in position.

Of course, you might choose not to join a faction or role-play outside your territory, and that’s perfectly fine. However, as a player, you made this decision. Besides, those who are actively engaging in battles and exploring the world still get experience and the bonus from the fights and whatnot (perhaps that's why /havoc will exist, to help those who don’t want or can't join a faction due to their IC and want to be their own chaotic force), right? If not, integrating it into the system could be a good idea.

Remember, influence is capped daily, so the maximum you can earn is 500 signature points per day. This means it would take about 10 days of consistent role-playing within your faction to see significant results.

That's a significant time commitment, especially for those who can't play the game around the clock. Eternia is meant to be enjoyable for everyone, so having additional ways to reward players who push the plot during their free time, like with /havoc and influence points, would be really helpful.