06-22-2020, 11:13 AM
It's iffy.
It's more than possible to keep things going indefinitely and be relatively entertaining (we did it with both Eternia and Spires), but whether or not it's more fun overall and produces better stories is difficult to say.
I think it's easy to see in both Spires and here, that when you start with strong foundations it produces a great story, but over time that gradually becomes more diluted and wishy-washy, where it's more or less on repeat with a different cast. An 'indefinite' format of the game makes it somewhat difficult to world build I think, where the 'end' of a faction is rarely as conclusive or climatic as it should be, as people enjoy the flavor and tend to go back to iit. What you begin with is going to be the most popular because recreating something from scratch with as much depth and popularity among the community is a heavy challenge. It rarely has the same weight to it.
Eternia 1 began with Danarium, Nostvale, Tilandre, Frostvale, and Byson. These cities/factions continued on until the end; there were decent attempts at introducing new places here and there (Sunflower Village, Mormegil, to name a few), but the big players were always in the spotlight.
Spires begun with Gehenna, Valmasia, and Jianghu. They also each had a presence until the end. And when they didn't have a strong presence, the game felt kind of bland to be honest, during the later stages where it was Crafthold/Levengard.
Esshar is... A little different, in that a lot of us here prefer Osrona. It gets the bulk of the spotlight due to its popularity, perhaps as a result of its map, or its lore as a 'true' medieval kingdom. Now the majority of the community is either Osrona-1 (loyalists) or Osrona-2 (usurpers). For new factions to rise, either of these needs to be wiped out completely, & the mentioned map changes need to take place. Otherwise we're going to be stuck in that loop. As an example of a consequence of that loop, today I read about Kofe/Basil/Mars/Mihalis (?) in a roaming gank squad, and that isn't an inviting atmosphere. Everyone's friends when they shouldn't be, and many of the current strong characters do a disservice to what the world could be. Why should I or anyone else make an antagonist when it'll take 2-3 months to even match day 1 characters? And when they all band together like that? Maybe longer, since they'll be progressing too. It's difficult to bring about true change to such an uneven playing field.
What appeals to me most about an episodic approach is the period of downtime where everyone can organize, factions begin somewhat evenly distributed, and the idea of a 'true' ending. Something big and climatic that isn't overturned by flavor of the month. Then you have a fresh start where we can make the most of the upcoming arc and the transition from whatever conclusion was reached.
So for example, the Republic of Esshar versus the Empire of Barsburg. The former would be led by a council of Essharans; A Dragonlord, an Osronan Representative, and the Valelord. While Barsburg is loaded with advanced weaponry and runetech, all of which could be represented mechanically. That would be something special I think, which you can't really capture with events alone because PvE (while a nice distraction) isn't the same. You won't ever get this kind of change in our current format because it's too restrictive - beating the status quo as a newly introduced faction isn't possible unless you're given massive plot armor (which is lame/unfair), which then just makes that addition feel more like a side piece while people continue to spin around the same story on repeat.
Also some quick rebuttals:
What climax? Valmasia vs Jianghu had happened twice already, with big finishes (multiple leader deaths). Dawn was so inactive at that time that you applied to be able to raid settlements on your own. This is a perfect example of trying to keep the same dead horse going, rather than welcoming a fresh of breath air (which the vampire arc was). Similarly for the Syndicate - the faction was well and truly dead, and it was more or less absorbed by the witches (their HQs were linked). They had a final battle, and weren't making a come back. I think your point here is a little all over the place.
Eternia averaged at 50-60 during that time. It was the reason we decided to do something new, and I think that choice was earned after five years. Spires' retained more because people enjoyed the roleplay, really, nothing to do with AP modifiers. It was a sleepy period in the story, but that was happening far in advance of any announcement anyway.
Cinderfall was the remnants of a destroyed/conquered town, a backwaters village. It wasn't going to topple an empire, and was only effective post-Spires announcement because most of the Azraelite characters had concluded their characters (the server had like a 20 population at that time). This is again an example of not letting stories finish and trying really hard to drag things out, instead of just moving on. A winner and a loser is best instead of a constant back and forth.
With all that said, while I'm a fan of the idea, because I want to explore other parts of Eternia's world rather than be confined, let things continue to develop. Improve the map, and let's see where the current cast goes. Maybe one of the Osrona's falls and something else takes centre stage. It's way too early to really consider what's being suggested here IMO, but it is fun to think about because the freedom involved is inviting. I'll throw in a poll since seeing the general consensus has me curious.
It's more than possible to keep things going indefinitely and be relatively entertaining (we did it with both Eternia and Spires), but whether or not it's more fun overall and produces better stories is difficult to say.
I think it's easy to see in both Spires and here, that when you start with strong foundations it produces a great story, but over time that gradually becomes more diluted and wishy-washy, where it's more or less on repeat with a different cast. An 'indefinite' format of the game makes it somewhat difficult to world build I think, where the 'end' of a faction is rarely as conclusive or climatic as it should be, as people enjoy the flavor and tend to go back to iit. What you begin with is going to be the most popular because recreating something from scratch with as much depth and popularity among the community is a heavy challenge. It rarely has the same weight to it.
Eternia 1 began with Danarium, Nostvale, Tilandre, Frostvale, and Byson. These cities/factions continued on until the end; there were decent attempts at introducing new places here and there (Sunflower Village, Mormegil, to name a few), but the big players were always in the spotlight.
Spires begun with Gehenna, Valmasia, and Jianghu. They also each had a presence until the end. And when they didn't have a strong presence, the game felt kind of bland to be honest, during the later stages where it was Crafthold/Levengard.
Esshar is... A little different, in that a lot of us here prefer Osrona. It gets the bulk of the spotlight due to its popularity, perhaps as a result of its map, or its lore as a 'true' medieval kingdom. Now the majority of the community is either Osrona-1 (loyalists) or Osrona-2 (usurpers). For new factions to rise, either of these needs to be wiped out completely, & the mentioned map changes need to take place. Otherwise we're going to be stuck in that loop. As an example of a consequence of that loop, today I read about Kofe/Basil/Mars/Mihalis (?) in a roaming gank squad, and that isn't an inviting atmosphere. Everyone's friends when they shouldn't be, and many of the current strong characters do a disservice to what the world could be. Why should I or anyone else make an antagonist when it'll take 2-3 months to even match day 1 characters? And when they all band together like that? Maybe longer, since they'll be progressing too. It's difficult to bring about true change to such an uneven playing field.
What appeals to me most about an episodic approach is the period of downtime where everyone can organize, factions begin somewhat evenly distributed, and the idea of a 'true' ending. Something big and climatic that isn't overturned by flavor of the month. Then you have a fresh start where we can make the most of the upcoming arc and the transition from whatever conclusion was reached.
So for example, the Republic of Esshar versus the Empire of Barsburg. The former would be led by a council of Essharans; A Dragonlord, an Osronan Representative, and the Valelord. While Barsburg is loaded with advanced weaponry and runetech, all of which could be represented mechanically. That would be something special I think, which you can't really capture with events alone because PvE (while a nice distraction) isn't the same. You won't ever get this kind of change in our current format because it's too restrictive - beating the status quo as a newly introduced faction isn't possible unless you're given massive plot armor (which is lame/unfair), which then just makes that addition feel more like a side piece while people continue to spin around the same story on repeat.
Also some quick rebuttals:
Quote:I remember the time when Spires had Dawn v Huangzhou climax coming up - whatever side would lose, it's honestly whatever at that point, but...
Suddenly, vampires arrive in the middle of that war arc.
What climax? Valmasia vs Jianghu had happened twice already, with big finishes (multiple leader deaths). Dawn was so inactive at that time that you applied to be able to raid settlements on your own. This is a perfect example of trying to keep the same dead horse going, rather than welcoming a fresh of breath air (which the vampire arc was). Similarly for the Syndicate - the faction was well and truly dead, and it was more or less absorbed by the witches (their HQs were linked). They had a final battle, and weren't making a come back. I think your point here is a little all over the place.
Quote:After the release date of Spires was announced, Eternia went for having a 100+ population to being lucky to find ten online within days. Spires retained a bit more when the release date of Esshar was announced, I think, but I also think that might have been because of the crazy ap modifiers,
Eternia averaged at 50-60 during that time. It was the reason we decided to do something new, and I think that choice was earned after five years. Spires' retained more because people enjoyed the roleplay, really, nothing to do with AP modifiers. It was a sleepy period in the story, but that was happening far in advance of any announcement anyway.
Quote:The end of Eternia had Cinderfall, a 'good guy' settlement that beat back an attack from the Alliance of Azraelites, and had a pretty strong momentum to overthrowing them. And yet, in Valmasia's lore in Agartha, they lost, because thats what was decided in the lore writing stage of development.
Cinderfall was the remnants of a destroyed/conquered town, a backwaters village. It wasn't going to topple an empire, and was only effective post-Spires announcement because most of the Azraelite characters had concluded their characters (the server had like a 20 population at that time). This is again an example of not letting stories finish and trying really hard to drag things out, instead of just moving on. A winner and a loser is best instead of a constant back and forth.
With all that said, while I'm a fan of the idea, because I want to explore other parts of Eternia's world rather than be confined, let things continue to develop. Improve the map, and let's see where the current cast goes. Maybe one of the Osrona's falls and something else takes centre stage. It's way too early to really consider what's being suggested here IMO, but it is fun to think about because the freedom involved is inviting. I'll throw in a poll since seeing the general consensus has me curious.