Spell Balance Suggestions

[Teemo]

No one tell Teemo bone blades buffs heals too unlike just about any other cast-buff in the game.

(On a more serious note, most buffs I agree are not worth it.)

same issue. why would i get bone blades when i can get another heal

[Detective100]

Volcanic Eruption
All I'm suggesting is to add some kind of visual indicator for the AoE attack's max range. I've seen too many people walk out of its range only to go back in and get KOed, myself included.

Earthquake has a visual indicator of its AoE, can we do something similar to Volcanic Eruption?

Earthquake's visual clues are about as telling as Volcanic Eruption's lava pools.

I disagree. You can actually see the clues as the earth visibly trembles inside the AoE's range. I never found myself questioning how big the Earthquake AoE is, or end up walking into it without meaning to.

Volcaonic Eruption, however? Yes, I do question those things repeatedly each time I fight against it.

[Lung]

axe kick
7-> 8sd

[Morg.]

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Spell: Absorption. (Fate Tree)

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Before i even start talking about the ideas of changes in which I believe to be good for the Fate tree itself, it must be pointed that I know and witnessed Absorption at it's "Peak."

What i'm aiming for is not something uterly broken, I know how strong Mana Absorb can be, but right now? It's slightly pathethic.

---

To make my point clear and for all in which barely know what the spells of Absorption do, here it is the two spells that are available to me at this exact moment: 

Aura:  

Ray:             

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Now onto the problems onto it's current state...

I won't lie, when i apped for Mana Absorb I believed it to be a Toggle Buff still, when I got to use the Aura, taking out Camoflage in which is quite a good aura, I did felt quite extremely weaker, the aura does not heal, it does not give any DR anymore and it barely absorbs the enemy mana.

I felt disapointed, of course, until I actually tried out Null Ray- Then it all made sense, Null ray is the actual Mana damage of Absorption, just so it dosen't become what it previously were, "Let me stand beside u for 2s and you don't have mana", you have to hit the Ray, which is somewhat hard even if it has really good range.

Then the problems truly start.

Null Ray damage to health is not THAT great, but still, I believe it's because it's focused onto the Mana Damage, which would be exact 45.
Taking in account that people will most of the time have around 158 Mana, It takes around 3 Null Rays to get someone to 0.
Sometimes just two depending onto the enemy build, if they have various spells whith a heavy mana cost, with just two you can get someone to 0.

But then it comes the catch and for me, one of the worst parts of current Mana Absorb (Yes, The aura).
To make sure your enemy don't recover all his mana in 3-5 seconds, you have the Aura, which slowly drains someone's mana, just enough to make sure they won't passively regen their mana, which is a pretty nice concept!

But.... 3 range is hard.
Even more when in my own case, my build resound arounds placing AoE's onto my enemy feet and running away, I have to be close to do all the Absorptions job.

And why a Ray has 10 range if u need to instantly run to 3 tiles away from the enemy to make sure they don't regen it.

The only build I think could make Mana Absorb to work onto it's "Full" potential is Metal, just like... Rigs 2.0, get your enemy to be stuck and literally suck him dry of all his mana- But eh... Metal can make a lot of things to work and be stupid.

I believe that previously, it didn't really matter if you managed or not to empty your enemy mana (I'm talking about E3) with the DR you would get and the heal when someone is close to you, you didn't even needed to try, the buffs by itself were already amazing.
But in E4, to make it work, to make it be actually worth it, I need to try to get my enemy to 0 mana.

Why?
10% AP, +10 VIT (Aura) - 10 Damage, 20CD (Ray)

They are good, but there's better things out there! If someone wants to get Mana Absorb, they have to know that there is much better options out there, Auto-Hits that do around the same damage while giving a debuff and Auras that are straight up better. 
Do you want a example? Gravity Aura, exactly the same stats as Mana Absorb without expending a master token and having a 'E'. (And there are even better Auras out there)

So kind of, why should i bother when I could get better stats and not worrying onto getting a blue bar to become mostly black. (Don't get me wrong, I love the Ic part of it, but fighting can get a bit tiresome.)

---

Okay, I've talked with some people and tought of the possible point that... Some parts of a Fate tree being weak is the actual point?

 Aura: Mid.
Skill: Usable.
Third Skill: Game Breaking.

But whell... There's always the exception, Death go brrrr enemy health bar.

A way to make things to be somewhat balanced and make it evident of the impact of the Third Skill, but that's not the case because.... Commandant. (And others who got the Fate Tress first! It wasen't suposed to be like this!)
It were strong, no... It were broken, but in his case, where he had Hive Racials, Wind Magic and Op Mana Absorb, the best way to nerf him and not destroy a lot other people where to fuck Mana Absorb.

And well, I don't think that Fate trees be kind of weak on some points would be cool, cause... It takes some dev! And adds a bit of a fun aspect to someone fighting style, Death being oocly killing your enemy with a heart attack, Barrier being the meme of "You're locked in here with me" and well... Mana Absorb getting you to 0 Mana if played right.

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Now finally onto the solutions...

Please raise the range of the Aura, I think of my build as a Mid-Range, but because of Mana Absorb, I need to stay close to my enemy at all times to hope to get them to 0 mana.
And while I do so, either A: My melee enemy gives me a 10k Fatal Strike. B: I have to run after a kiter taking hits and slows to the face.
And well... I would love to see the heal and Dr to come back, but it might be hard, but still, giving me something a little more special so I or any other future Absorption player can use to not get murdered while trying to stay close would be amazing. (Again, E3 DR was really onto the point onto the theme of the spell, it's just that... It became overpowered when combined with other strong shit, like... Sustain Anti-Christ.)

The Ray now, as i said, it's kind of the best thing I have from Absorption right now, but I do feel like it could be slightly buffed maybe in both damages cause, doing enough damage to someone's mana to be noticeable onto their combos is hard.
Specially against burst builds that kill me before i get them to 50% mana or even 50% Hp, the little silence? Chef's kiss, but still it could be slightly better.


Of course, focusing way too much into one would make it a lil overpowered like, Immortal Absorption user or Null Rays that delete your mana bar. (Kind of what happened, yes, I'm looking at you Hipster.)

---

So... Well, I cannot say for sure what stats I would want, cause it would be somewhat biased and work specially in my build.

But I think I were clear onto it's problems and I think it should like... Work with both melee and kiter builds.
Unless Mana Absorb suddenly becomes a sword art, lol. (Please don't do that)

I'm super hyped to the news that a AoE gonna drop and it may or may not fit like a glove onto my build.

But making a quick resume of all of this, Nerfed the Fate tree way too hard after someone strong used it, Barrier too deserves some love- Hemera been suffering lmao. (But that Titan looks cool as fuck)

---

Boom, there it is Hipster.
I fulfilled my word.
:)

---

Spell: Wound Reversal

Motive: Fuck. 

I forgot about this.

Nerf Wound Reversal.

Mf's can heal 253 mana while having 158 total- And at every 20s more or less, I literally can't compete, that's the exodia vs Absorption. 



Suggension: Idk... Make it not heal mana

[tenias]

hey hey gamers

So y'know how sand is, right? It's that CC tree that is honestly pretty balanced, I personally think it's a bit above average but it has obvious counters.

What if I told you that it actually has a master that you've probably not seen used in the last month? Well, that's the thing, it's a bit gutted so I'm bringing up an old nerf changelog that was put into the game a day after someone with a Sand/Water build trashed all of Aphros' strongest at the time.

Binding Burial idle duration reduced from 12.5s to 9s (sand)

Desert Fury AP reduced from 15% AP to 10% AP; All other benefit remain the same. (sand)

Alright, now we can get into the aura.

Desert Fury isn't that bad, but I think it's other effects are a bit overrated because

1. Water Healing is not bad, actually it's super good but I think it's overrated because people hype it up to be like a completely game changing thing when it's comparable to 5-8% DR which can be reduced through Jammer or Curse. Sometimes fights are very fast and the healing can seem almost like it doesn't even matter, so in those situations it doesn't even heal enough to hit the quota needed to be 5% DR. That isn't to say that it can heal enough to exceed 5% DR, however, it can most certainly exceed it in some matchups.

2. Fire Tiles aren't that good, when I tested them I noticed it was either .5 - 1 SD give or take. It also only appears when you dash and even then it disappears as fast as it comes.

3. Sandstorm Active is inconsistent, the tornadoes are spawned in random places and are too slow for their duration so you've most likely never seen it used back at the start of Meranthe when there were a lot of Desert Fury users. It's very hit or miss and most of the time it's a miss despite the potential it has.

4. I remember being told there was a twister block, there isn't but I would honestly love that as it'd be a very good thing to combo with sand burial.

5. I remember being told it has 5% DR, unfortunately it doesn't though that could make it worth it imo.

When I isolate them and point them out like that, they can seem like very minor effects but one can make the argument that when combined together it's still worth it as an aura-- That's a fair argument, but when taking into account that the Active will almost never hit and the fire tiles are basically non existent, Water Healing is really the only thing that's keeping this aura from being the worst master aura... This makes it a very iffy choice and is pretty sad since it was the only sand hidden in the game, it may not be worth the master token.

There can also be the argument that Sand is already rather powerful in the right hands, but I'll say that it's probably more of a RPP sink and harder to use than you'd think. Here are some reasons why:

1. Sand Avalanche has a smaller hitbox than Tidal Wave which is a bit vexing when a Sand user is trying to line up a shot only to watch someone literally walk inside of it without getting damaged. It's also less damage and more CD than Tidal Wave, which is also an intermediate same as Sand Avalanche. This shit is 40 seconds in CD haha kill me.

(a reminder that I had to suffer this for aenal's entire lifetime)


2. Sand Burial is a small AoE, you might genuinely be surprised when you take a look at it and that means it's both a bit hard to hit without a slow or speed up and also forces you into close quarters. It's also hard to dash with for some reason, I can't quite explain how but you'll know what I mean when you try to dash -> Sand Burial. Now, we can also notice that it's a root which means people inside it can use a plethora of ways to get out without eating a combo such as: Shockwaves, invulns, cleanses, beaming the motherfucker, minefield, lightspeed, as well as phantom strikes and assault. Another funny thing about it is that it blocks the dude's sprite with sand, so you might get surprised when it turns out a neph was actually using true counter while their glow is hidden. It also has a CD of 30 seconds sharing Marble Grasp's CD despite how much easier it is to land Marble Grasp.

3. Sand Barrier is an immobile invuln that lasts 2-3 seconds when most invulns are usually 5 seconds and can move during it. It shoots shit, however, and that's pretty cool.

4. Nobody uses Sandstorm.

5. Quicksand is an AoE slow that lasts 5 seconds, this is a bit of an oof when compared to the other slows such as Overheat, Flurry, and Energy Constriction which are easier to hit (constriction is arguable) and often than not do more damage overtime than quicksand's initial 4 SD.

With that in mind, I think returning it to 15 AP may be a bit of an overbuff (maybe not), so I propose giving it back it's old 5% DR or maybe buffing it's 3 little additional effects specifically the fire trail and active-- Some buffs that would be cool are like:

1. Water Healing is okay, keeping it the same is good.

2. Fire Tiles could receive an increase in damage, people can hardly feel it as it is.

3. The Active could receive an increase in the amount of projectiles it spawns, as well as it's duration.

4. Twister on block, please do that because it sounds cool and I'd use it.

[Egomaniacal]

hey hey gamers

So y'know how sand is, right? It's that CC tree that is honestly pretty balanced, I personally think it's a bit above average but it has obvious counters.

What if I told you that it actually has a master that you've probably not seen used in the last month? Well, that's the thing, it's a bit gutted so I'm bringing up an old nerf changelog that was put into the game a day after someone with a Sand/Water build trashed all of Aphros' strongest at the time.

Binding Burial idle duration reduced from 12.5s to 9s (sand)

Desert Fury AP reduced from 15% AP to 10% AP; All other benefit remain the same. (sand)

Alright, now we can get into the aura.

Desert Fury isn't that bad, but I think it's other effects are a bit overrated because

1. Water Healing is not bad, actually it's super good but I think it's overrated because people hype it up to be like a completely game changing thing when it's comparable to 5-8% DR which can be reduced through Jammer or Curse. Sometimes fights are very fast and the healing can seem almost like it doesn't even matter, so in those situations it doesn't even heal enough to hit the quota needed to be 5% DR. That isn't to say that it can heal enough to exceed 5% DR, however, it can most certainly exceed it in some matchups.

2. Fire Tiles aren't that good, when I tested them I noticed it was either .5 - 1 SD give or take. It also only appears when you dash and even then it disappears as fast as it comes.

3. Sandstorm Active is inconsistent, the tornadoes are spawned in random places and are too slow for their duration so you've most likely never seen it used back at the start of Meranthe when there were a lot of Desert Fury users. It's very hit or miss and most of the time it's a miss despite the potential it has.

4. I remember being told there was a twister block, there isn't but I would honestly love that as it'd be a very good thing to combo with sand burial.

5. I remember being told it has 5% DR, unfortunately it doesn't though that could make it worth it imo.

When I isolate them and point them out like that, they can seem like very minor effects but one can make the argument that when combined together it's still worth it as an aura-- That's a fair argument, but when taking into account that the Active will almost never hit and the fire tiles are basically non existent, Water Healing is really the only thing that's keeping this aura from being the worst master aura... This makes it a very iffy choice and is pretty sad since it was the only sand hidden in the game, it may not be worth the master token.

There can also be the argument that Sand is already rather powerful in the right hands, but I'll say that it's probably more of a RPP sink and harder to use than you'd think. Here are some reasons why:

1. Sand Avalanche has a smaller hitbox than Tidal Wave which is a bit vexing when a Sand user is trying to line up a shot only to watch someone literally walk inside of it without getting damaged. It's also less damage and more CD than Tidal Wave, which is also an intermediate same as Sand Avalanche. This shit is 40 seconds in CD haha kill me.

(a reminder that I had to suffer this for aenal's entire lifetime)


2. Sand Burial is a small AoE, you might genuinely be surprised when you take a look at it and that means it's both a bit hard to hit without a slow or speed up and also forces you into close quarters. It's also hard to dash with for some reason, I can't quite explain how but you'll know what I mean when you try to dash -> Sand Burial. Now, we can also notice that it's a root which means people inside it can use a plethora of ways to get out without eating a combo such as: Shockwaves, invulns, cleanses, beaming the motherfucker, minefield, lightspeed, as well as phantom strikes and assault. Another funny thing about it is that it blocks the dude's sprite with sand, so you might get surprised when it turns out a neph was actually using true counter while their glow is hidden. It also has a CD of 30 seconds sharing Marble Grasp's CD despite how much easier it is to land Marble Grasp.

3. Sand Barrier is an immobile invuln that lasts 2-3 seconds when most invulns are usually 5 seconds and can move during it. It shoots shit, however, and that's pretty cool.

4. Nobody uses Sandstorm.

5. Quicksand is an AoE slow that lasts 5 seconds, this is a bit of an oof when compared to the other slows such as Overheat, Flurry, and Energy Constriction which are easier to hit (constriction is arguable) and often than not do more damage overtime than quicksand's initial 4 SD.

With that in mind, I think returning it to 15 AP may be a bit of an overbuff (maybe not), so I propose giving it back it's old 5% DR or maybe buffing it's 3 little additional effects specifically the fire trail and active-- Some buffs that would be cool are like:

1. Water Healing is okay, keeping it the same is good.

2. Fire Tiles could receive an increase in damage, people can hardly feel it as it is.

3. The Active could receive an increase in the amount of projectiles it spawns, as well as it's duration.

4. Twister on block, please do that because it sounds cool and I'd use it.

Former dirt magi and sand enthusiast here,
I support this suggestion.

Atleast give it a good active, come on. Those twisters are slower then my typing speed.

[Avee]

Very cool suggestions everyone


















Buff melee

[Jumpy]

mal downvoted avee's post because melee only has 1 autohit.




buff crit scaling past 180 so that skills that increase your crit actually are more than a .675% increase to your crit chance this is pathetic
think of the limit break amulet users :/
and then you can use this as an excuse to buff mana even more

[Sanguine415]

and then you can use this as an excuse to buff mana even more

We stay keeping Ratqueen oppressed. DR builds must stay dead.

[OneBrainCell]

I am once here again to try and advocate for the barrier aura, this time with examples on why the aura should be buffed in comparison to public auras.

Barrier: 10 DR and 15 power. Fate tree aura. Second unlock in tree.

Starlight Overdrive 10 DR and 10 AP. 15 power more generally. Public hidden token unlock.

Magma Aura: 8 DR and 15 power. Only 2 DR less. A basic public aura.

The aoe is fine, the issue is in the aura. Nerf public auras or buff barrier. I should not be gunning for a public token aura that is stronger than my fate tree. This isn't a 'skill issue' as some so eloquently said before. If a hidden token unlockable aura is going to be stronger, what is the point of barrier being in a fate tree with the need for an application? At least give it the same stats as Starlight Overdrive.

My days on this character are coming to an end as she ages, but this needs to be fixed for future characters. Barrier used to be a respectable hidden and now people literally avoid devving for it because public options are stronger. 

Please fix this so people actually care about this fate tree and these hiddens again, because their lore and ic is really good, but the state of the aura is outweighing the interest of the ic. The barrier aura is not worth having.