My thoughts on Hiddens.

[ScarecrowVT]

I'll be blunt. 
I feel like hiddens are too easy to get now days and that I see so many people I've never heard of with hiddens. 

Hiddens back in E1 at least how I saw them. Were given to people that were actively apart of the BIG story. Leaders of cities and factions. People actively pushing a story and that everyone knew. 

Now? I see people with hiddens and I have no idea who they are or what they've done. Now why I'm not saying hiddens are easier to get... I think too many are getting them that may not deserve them. I've seen and heard of some people that once they get their hidden? They afk. Hiddens used to be used to push the story. To do something to affect the world. 

Now it's like "Hey look at what I can do mom!" like it seriously just doesn't feel like the world is changing cause joe schmoe got primordial or super magi.
Now im not talking about the stances. I don't care about those.  

I'm talking about hiddens that are supposed to have a big ic affect. Stuff like occult affecting your mind. Making you crazy. Stuff like Ancestor's Wrath. 
Yet when I see it. I don't feel it. I just feel a super powered magi that still acts the same or doesn't change at all. 

Hiddens were about the growth of your character. Not just to get stronger. 

I feel like hiddens. Actual hiddens. Not just stances should be given to those that are actively pushing the story and doing something that affects everyone. Too many afk after getting hiddens and only pop in for wars.

[europeanSavior]

Occultism doesn't count as a hidden......

[ScarecrowVT]

Occultism doesn't count as a hidden......

do you have to app for it? Or get it through journal dev?

[europeanSavior]

That doesn't make a hidden a hidden. Imo hiddens are spells/active buffs/auras/etc, not a tree. (plus, it doesn't even count towards your hidden limit)

[ScarecrowVT]

That doesn't make a hidden a hidden. Imo hiddens are spells/active buffs/auras/etc, not a tree. (plus, it doesn't even count towards your hidden limit)

If you have to go through an application process to get it. Whether it's through a journal or classic application logs. It is a hidden per say. It's locked behind it to make sure people rp it proper cause too many people don't RP it right. 

While it doesn't count towards your hidden limit neither does medic. But medic is considered a hidden and takes the same amount of effort as holy/occult. It's to make sure you RP medic proper. (Which I sometimes still get medics that walk up to me. Heal me and then say "boop you're good. All healed" which is just bad and un immersive).

[Upset Toaster]

I, personally, couldn't consider occult or holy a hidden due to the basis that it is just journaled for to stop people from going occult/holy freely and roleplaying it wrong. It is indeed a bad argument to make.

The only reason that the barrier is there, is to stop people from meta-building with lore-intensive trees that should be only roleplayed efficiently by those that app for it.

When it comes to Exalted-Hiddens, like Death Magic, Nullification, all the like, I can say that people should do more for. Exalted hiddens should only be given to those that have put in a lot of effort and was able to spark a change somewhere in the world.

For Master-Hiddens, like Primordial Flame or Super Magi, I like to think that anyone is capable of getting it and shouldn't make that much of a difference, but maybe their stats can be looked at and maybe even lightly tapped on the wrist.

[ScarecrowVT]

I, personally, couldn't consider occult or holy a hidden due to the basis that it is just journaled for to stop people from going occult/holy freely and roleplaying it wrong. It is indeed a bad argument to make.

The only reason that the barrier is there, is to stop people from meta-building with lore-intensive trees that should be only roleplayed efficiently by those that app for it.

When it comes to Exalted-Hiddens, like Death Magic, Nullification, all the like, I can say that people should do more for. Exalted hiddens should only be given to those that have put in a lot of effort and was able to spark a change somewhere in the world.

For Master-Hiddens, like Primordial Flame or Super Magi, I like to think that anyone is capable of getting it and shouldn't make that much of a difference, but maybe their stats can be looked at and maybe even lightly tapped on the wrist.

I agree with those last two stances. I've already made my argument against the whole Holy/occult not being a hidden.

[ferrettamer]

i feel like to a certain extent you are devaluing other's achievements and effort put forward just because you don't know about it. just because someone's character growth, as you put it, isn't available to you as an open book, doesn't mean that it isn't there or that they apped to get stronger, which feels more like a projection than anything else, as much as that's an equally unkind presumption.

while it's couched in generally inoffensive opinions, there's a somewhat judgmental tone here toward the playerbase that i don't think is fair or warranted given my time roleplaying with a lot of the characters who have these abilities. they all showcase character growth, even if they're not global antags/protags or whatever bar for "relevance" people want to assign

[Teemo]

People don't afk because they get hiddens. They afk because they feel like they've accomplished what they've set out to do, or just burn out. This typically happens when they've pushed the story, not the opposite. Changing anything about hiddens will never fix this.

Making them harder to achieve to have people hooked onto their character only causes motivation to dwindle and causes this game to be an even bigger commitment. It'll drive players out.

It's a complex problem with no easy solution. However, the solution definitely isn't making hiddens harder achieve because they're strong. Primordial Flame being made rare when it's essentially, "make fire burn bright and strong" isn't it. Same with energy overdrive and.. probably most of the energy hiddens.

Obviously, there're many approaches people can take to dev for a hidden. It's very freeform, but when the base minimum simplistic, you can't be upset at people for getting it that way.

Gatekeeping hiddens because someone 'is' irrelevant or hasn't done as much as another person who has it is really toxic and annoying af in my eyes.

Credit is due where it's deserved. If you deved hard as fuck and pushed the plot for your hidden, it'll be recognized, regardless of if it was for a 'weak' hidden or not. Take pride in what you've earned no matter how strong or rare it is. If someone's saying that you didn't deserve it, tell them to fuck off.

kinda went off-topic i don't really care.

also, expecting omega overdrive and occult to have amazing "wow" factor is.. kinda stupid. the impressive and incredibly hard to attain ones are amazing achievements and ARE seen as such.

[europeanSavior]

That doesn't make a hidden a hidden. Imo hiddens are spells/active buffs/auras/etc, not a tree. (plus, it doesn't even count towards your hidden limit)

If you have to go through an application process to get it. Whether it's through a journal or classic application logs. It is a hidden per say. It's locked behind it to make sure people rp it proper cause too many people don't RP it right. 

While it doesn't count towards your hidden limit neither does medic. But medic is considered a hidden and takes the same amount of effort as holy/occult. It's to make sure you RP medic proper. (Which I sometimes still get medics that walk up to me. Heal me and then say "boop you're good. All healed" which is just bad and un immersive).

. . .medic is not a hidden, what the fuck?