Adversity

[MurderMaid]

Yes.. buff Adversity
The Super Elite will never be ready for it..

he's preparing..

[Mali]

Do you really need a viable build to win with this? Honestly...More than likely not. 

Do you even really need heals? To make the most out of it, sure.

Just press it twice and win. 

Three times, if you're feeling spicy.

Honestly...The truth of the matter is rather simple, I don't think the Mire was ever handled in a good way. Admin should've made things much more clearer to these people because apparently, some are believing themselves to be PC characters, when infact, they are not. These spells(Mostly adversity, or should i say, cumversity) is absolutely bonkers. To complain about them and say that they are weak....Even in the face of dozens of people telling you otherwise is purely delusional(And I would know ok...) Honestly, the truth of the matter is..

The mire should've been introduced regularly instead of given broken spells/stats/etc with the expectation of these characters dying or merely being made to further the story of another(Event characters). These creatures should've been apped for and perhaps, this conversation would be a lot less toxic...And handled in a better manner.

The rules are hardly adhered to- and quite frankly, I don't even think the mire had much thought put into it at all. Infact, I know it didnt.

Either way, my verdict is:

Reboot the Mire.

Or delete it. Period. 

It should've been clear from the get-go, because from what I'm being told...New people are just creating and what not without understanding. Putting them in the creation screen..

Big mistake.

[ScarecrowVT]

Yes.. buff Adversity
The Super Elite will never be ready for it..

he's preparing..

Make Cooler next to come get revenge on all those dirty monkeys

[Horos]

Most optimal solution is make the Mire app-only ; another choice would be to lock it behind 180-200RPL RBs OR give them to people that earn them with quality.

EDIT:
Frequently the argument is Mire are PseudoECs to push character Development but how many creatures of the Mire you actually see pushing some development? Theirs only a handful of them and everyone knows their names, and that’s the actual issue.

[ScarecrowVT]

Most optimal solution is make the Mire app-only ; another choice would be to lock it behind 180-200RPL RBs OR give them to people that earn them with quality.

I fully agree with this.

[Delirium]

I'm down for locking Mire behind RPLs. No joke, none of them are meant for first time characters, and it seems really odd that they're available.

Then again Ogre's not too hard RP-wise to get into... ME BIG ME SMASH is ez.

[BoryaTheSlayer]

Better suggestion. Make it so that you don't have to buy ghost rip to get adversity.

[Adrenaline]

We rly gonna sit here and watch Haarper pump an entire hp bar in one armed rotation but yall can't do 60 spell damage in 10 seconds? cmon.

No, I don't want to create a mutant to prove you wrong because I do not care. These racials are good, the Mire monsters have good racials to offset their cons. Build around them.

Ghost Rip and Adversity have synergy with one another. Pick up Cosmic or Time, pick up Caster or Ifrit, heck, you might not even need it because you have a 10 spell damage, gcde, 0 cd spell.

CC + Mana Regen, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Avee]

Hi, Avee here.

I see a number of opinions in this thread, some are right, some are skimming along the idea of the controversial, and some are outright pants on head retarded. I'd never expect anything less, guys.

I'll first mention adversity, since that seems to be what the original post was about.

Adversity is, in as few words as I can muster, a perfectly adequate spell that meets the needs it exists for. It's a rare example of a spell without a niche that can be paired with any spell for bonus points, it can spice up your combo, and with the right combination of trees and general skill, it's a fantastic spell. It's perfectly fine as is, but I'll also never claim it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It does it's job, and it does well at that job. It's an admirable, hard-working spell. This is purely my opinion on the matter.

Ghost Rip?

I fucking adore ghost rip, fantastic spell, and very obviously over-tuned as piss, and I love it.

Moving on...

Contrary to Miss Fru's opinion on the matter, I believe Shadowmire was at least reasonably well handled upon launch.

What's with the break between EC's and PC's?

I'll tell you all right now where the problem with the Shadowmire arose, gather round ye lads and lasses, sit ye for awhile, and hearken to me mournful tale about the shadow isle.

It is functionally my fault, I'm not -keen- on admitting it, but it is. 

Sometime around the beginning of the Mire, we had an issue getting our racials, mutants and ogres, I believe were the only races that had their racials ready to go. (Not to mention the RPP bonus didn't work at the time.) This, when paired with the frequent fights from people travelling down within the Mire, led to a severe doom complex in which despite having a desire to give people dev,  this doom complex wouldn't result in what I call 'good' development.

What is good development? (In Avee's Opinion.)

In my opinion, good development rises when two people who have a functional disagreement can meet, and fight over those differences beyond the face of the disagreement itself. Getting attack randomly by a monster isn't fantastic development, where is the plot? Where are the big questions? It leaves much to be desired. There must be a surface layer, and a subsurface layer for development. Adversity (the challenges one faces, not the spell.) for adversities sake is... middling at best, no better development than sitting at a bridge, pursuing randoms, and expecting an exalted. I like for fights to have purpose and plot, though I understand that sometimes they do not.

How does this tie in to my admission of fault from above?

Simple, when RPL200+ children started running down into the Mire, (lets not forget, many children were allowed to make into the academy before it's release.) and that doomer mentality kicked in, players started leaving. What is Avee, who just so happened to be the strongest PC in the Mire, and having the burden of leadership dropped on his head to do?

I DM'd Chance, and asked him what I should do. He suggested something with Nyx the Primordial. Naturally, I took the advice and ran with it. (I don't mention this to condemn Chance in any manner, it's purely for contextualization.) Thus, what few monsters were left, and a new one (Smurg! Bless Prinny, for he helped many of us in our hour of need.) took off carousing across the event world to speak with 'Mother' and gain her input on the matter. This was to gain the power to push -back- against the people who would randomly wander in.

Chance advised I kill people who casually wandered in, I'm sure you're all familiar with the drill, 2v1 etc. etc. -- I never encouraged this, as it ties into the above, there is no depth to that plot, there is no true development to be garnered from it. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, or perhaps I merely have different standards from what I consider to be decent plot. A few of my confidants from this time will remember the despair I felt in trying to keep things together. 

Alas, something happened with the Nyx events I couldn't have foresaw. The Monsters absolutely -ran with it- it was our 'plot' our 'purpose' it was all very sudden. Soon we found ourselves having something to flesh out, build upon, and thus we did. Xian deserves the majority of the credit for this, all the older monsters do really deserve a pat on the back for this. I was merely happy to see that because we had 'something' to fight for, as vague and strange as a 'primordial' was. It worked, suddenly, less people would just leave, more people would stick around, and participate.

This resulted in players becoming attached to these monsters, and becoming attached to the lore that they helped create. After the Nyx events, I had very little engagement with the Mire as a whole. I have a busy schedule, I work, I can't do much about it. Every time I feel like I'm finally going to see the plot, development, and conflict I'm going for happen, some bullshit happens, and I work 48 days straight without a day off. (Otherwise Rhesus might be dead, but probably me, let's be honest.)

Yet, I come back, and what do I see?

I see raids, I see violence, I see death.

Yes, perhaps Shadowmire was designed to be spooky monsters that mindlessly did whatever, to 'act as punching bags' as I've heard it so eloquently put in the past, but they -are- generating plot, perhaps not as much as you like, but they are.

There's nothing inherently wrong with growing attached to a character, there is no fault in the stars one way or another.

Yes, I feel pity in my heart when a brand new player joins the Shadowmire, only to be subjected to the intense madness that awaits therein.

Over time, I've come to accept the role that Shadowmire has in this world, we're designed to provide conflict, and I'm happy to say that this isn't mindless droning random attacks throughout the world, but instead, complex interactions which truly fall within the definition of what I consider good development. It breaks my heart, being something of a gentle soul, but that's merely how it is.

I agree with Fru, perhaps lock it behind an RPL wall.

I'm tired of bantering in DM's about the spells and skills. I'm tired of expressing to people that everyone has the right to engage in the plot of their choosing.

Regarding the Shadowmire Mutants arguing about adversity I see this forum thread. I wake up in the middle of the day because it legitimately annoys me, you have the capacity to DM a ton of people who could help you regarding a build, how to use it, and what to do. Shadowmire PCs spar frequently between the scenes we find ourselves engaged in, use that time to practice your build. Adversity has a time and a place, you need to experiment to find when it is best for you.

Optionally you can just use one of the retarded meta builds. If it's all about strength (as it seems to be) do that.

Adversity is absolutely fucking broken with the right hotbar.

These are the cards you have been dealt.

Your hand may be shit, but it's either RB, or play it out anyway.

Apologies for the long 'emotional' response, and the length, I just woke up.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

I'm going back to bed.

[Carbon]

People are getting hella triggered over this it's kind of funny.

I agree that the Mire wasn't optimally put into the game, and what seemed to be an afterthought in comparison to the Academy arc. There have been plenty of monster/create factions before so I don't see why a similar thing could not have been done again? Labeling them as ECs, but not really, and then making it public was a horrible mistake. They were presented as ECs but had the accessibility of PCs (As in anyone can make into them).

I'm not sure why the Shadowmire tilts everyone, being the edgy monster yeehaw is kind of appealing to newer players for some reason so it makes sense that newer, less experienced players choose it (A horrible, horrible, mistake.) However, why all the hate? Most, if not all, of the high-RPL monsters are amazing fun to RP with and exist solely for the creation of RP and dev for those outside of the Mire. You can't start hating on an entire faction because of OOC experience/poor handling when added to the game. The players are doing what they can, with what they have. Also, I also don't think it was possible to put in a PUBLIC race and not expect them to form some sort of faction together.

I agree that most monsters should be locked behind an app wall. However, I do think there should be at least 1 public race that people can make into. Be it Mutant but nerfed or w.e. The Shadowmire tries to push a story internally and externally to the entire population of the game. I don't think there are many players that can say that they haven't had an interaction with the Mire, be it good or bad. Yet from what I see? It's mostly all good for dev/story progression.

Adversity as a whole? I think the skill is kind of broken, and heavily misused by some of the Mutants in the Mire. Just because a skill is hard to use, doesn't mean it's bad.