Absolute State of Antagonists

[Method T]

I feel like nerfed charm potions that can be spammed and applied stealthily after every casual witch group hug or dangerous was a dangerous/bad idea in theory.

Its just too strong of a skill to have available so readily without sacrifice/consequence.

[Imotepchief]

Having only experienced one hex first hand, which was both part of an event and purely ic with no buff, there seems to be 3 things I think are an issue with them, potential meta aside.

Firstly, if their duration is simply an hour, then that is far too low. As was pointed out earlier, the likelyhood of having a time consuming rp occur as the clock is ticking on a hex, is really high, so having that time extended would be a boon or simply have it so that the hex doesn't start to tick down untill the witch commits some other spell, allowing them to "retain focus" on their target untill they do so.

Secondly, the way that hexes are rp'd by the witch themselves, should change how exactly the target is effected. If there is a clear focus for the affected character to act in a way counter to their normal state of being, it should be allowed to be handled in a "Kilgrave" way, where the witch's pressence and focus "force" them to commit to that way of acting, but be allowed to have internal resistance to it, maybe even a tollarance build up over time and certainly allow them to be aware that they are being manipulated.
An example would be say, intentionally missing a kill blow, in combat.
If a hex is intended to be a nudge, something inline with a characters beliefs, way of thinking or restrained intent, then that should be something that the character, icly, shouldn't be aware of at all, simply going along with the hex's demands of them as long as it logically makes sense to do so.
Maybe make it a choice on the spell itself, whether or not it is focused, or a nudge, to allow the target to know how exactly they're supposed to respond.

Thirdly, outside of a small number of people, generally those who have gone through some kind of dev involving witches, people shouldn't even be aware, icly, what a hex even is.
Having encountered, even children, talk about witches, as if they are some mundane thing, has been rather jarring and I feel like, if you haven't been specifically taught about them, by say the church, a witch, or a disciple of a witch, you shouldn't really be aware of them at all, outside of folk tale/horror stories.

This whole topic on an ic level always comes across as so cut and dry, with little to no misinformation being spread about witches in general.
Witches should be the stuff of nightmares icly, there should be an almost ingrained fear of them and wildly over speculated emphasis on their abilities, propogated by the people that view them as a threat, simply to dissuade the masses from potentially backing up or defending a witch, simply because they are "friends" and "haven't done anything wrong", without any serious trust building really occuring between the characters. The urge to rat out a witch, should be one of extreme internal conflict, if resisted at all, making the choice to trust someone with the information critically dangerous.

[Touc]

Conflict between humans is preferable to dedicated antagonist races being the most prominent. Look at all the bandits that existed and still do exist. They formed organically as antagonists and grew and grew until someone put them down.

You shouldn't complain that people are 'griming Demons'. They signed up for a difficult challenge with a massive reward at the end if they grow enough and beat down enough people. With Demons, you have to stomp them out early and eradicate them, because otherwise they grow into an existential threat that /will/ carve a warpath and decimate just about anyone who stands in their way. They're not held to human logic, they have no emotions and they certainly can't be reasoned with, hence there is no reason they should not be destroyed on sight. (see pre-timeskip demons and demons in Spires)

No, this doesn't lend itself to good roleplay. It's a problem with 'Demons' as a concept and all the lore that surrounds them. The whole species'd need a rework in order to shake this mentality rather than just giving them a bunch more advantages.

Plus, it's just an awkward state right now. With so many morally good characters about and the fact that it's morally repugnant to leave a Demon alive (though I admit that they could do something like an 'I THOUGHT YOU DIED' sort of deal if they're capped), some people might feel obligated to take out Demons. Once these characters start dying and start rebirthing- potentially into demons themselves- the problem will solve itself.

[InThePooPoo]

Just because there is no IC reason to let a demon/mimic carry on does not mean you can’t create a cool scenario where they escape you as a creative and wholesome solution!

Ending a character prematurely is grime. Pure and simple.

[Logan]

Conflict between humans is preferable to dedicated antagonist races being the most prominent. Look at all the bandits that existed and still do exist. They formed organically as antagonists and grew and grew until someone put them down.

You shouldn't complain that people are 'griming Demons'. They signed up for a difficult challenge with a massive reward at the end if they grow enough and beat down enough people. With Demons, you have to stomp them out early and eradicate them, because otherwise they grow into an existential threat that /will/ carve a warpath and decimate just about anyone who stands in their way. They're not held to human logic, they have no emotions and they certainly can't be reasoned with, hence there is no reason they should not be destroyed on sight. (see pre-timeskip demons and demons in Spires)

No, this doesn't lend itself to good roleplay. It's a problem with 'Demons' as a concept and all the lore that surrounds them. The whole species'd need a rework.

With protagonists, you have to stomp them out early and eradicate them, because otherwise they grow into an existential threat that /will/ carve a warpath and decimate just about anyone who stands in their way.

[Touc]

Oh, I definitely agree. Do something creative upon someone being capped rather than just killing them outright. However, like I said in my edit, once these morally-good characters start dropping off and dying there'll be more room for demons to grow and evolve. It's just the state of the playerbase and the characters who are currently alive right now, not any sort of intrinsic problem with Demons (other than them being so obvious).

With protagonists, you have to stomp them out early and eradicate them, because otherwise they grow into an existential threat that /will/ carve a warpath and decimate just about anyone who stands in their way.

Isn't this exactly what happened the last time Demons and antagonists were the ones in power? All that's happened today is that the roles have been reversed because there's more protagonists than antagonists rather than the opposite being true.

[Logan]

Isn't this exactly what happened the last time Demons and antagonists were the ones in power? All that's happened today is that the roles have been reversed because there's more protagonists than antagonists rather than the opposite being true.

Yeah, and it's a really shitty way to handle things. Just because it has happened before doesn't mean that it needs to keep happening to other people. Snuffing out characters prematurely because they might one day threaten your character or their goals isn't you writing a story with other people. It's you writing to win.

[Boneless Pizza]

Having had about a month of careful planning destroyed in the span of about 10 hours, I can say safely say that being a witch is really rough. People tell you that all you need to do is be sneaky and not mess up but like... that's hard when any minor slip up will result in your immediate execution. I felt stressed out numerous times from improperly rped hexes or just people being suspicious of me when I only ever really used hexes with at least 6 other people around. Though even now I wonder what I could've done better, I don't think I did a terrible job. I can't really control how people rp towards things like that or even that everyone wants to be the one to reveal the witch and have them burned.

There's not really anyone I'm mad at for what happened the other night at this point. Do I think it could've been better executed? For sure. Do I think that a lot of the issues that came from the scene were because everyone really just wanted to sleep after a certain point? Kinda, yeah. There were a lot of things I wanted to do and it sucks that I didn't have the chance to even try and hop up back on my feet after an unfortunate reveal like that. But, at the same time, that's how things are ICly- there's nowhere for the witches to go and grow at. It was always meant to be an uphill battle and I tried to make the most of it till the very end, though. All because I wanted to play a good antagonist and eventually make big things happen against all odds. That was my goal going into it anyways.

Unless people can start being more respectful of them, I don't know if they're really any good in this RP environment. Not with the way the community is at the moment at least. The person playing them usually ends up understandably demotivated and, with nothing to support them and literally every faction against them, it just ends up being an overall bad time for the witches.

I tried to respect the RP of others, but in the end I'm not sure if my own RP was entirely respected. I'll keep it moving along on my next character though and see what I can do to stir up RP for everyone. Best of luck to the remaining witches if there even are any left.

[Touc]

Every encounter with a Demon is potentially lethal if you lose your fight- if not lethal to you, then lethal to another since you've just given that demon an instant power boost. A Demon is not held to human standards of emotion and empathy, and they are all more than willing to kill in order to achieve their ultimate goal of ascension to a higher form. IC and OOC, everyone knows this.

What you're saying- to stop 'snuffing out characters prematurely'- might be achievable in theory, and I think that it's a good goal to aim towards. However, the problem lies in the fact that there's no definition of 'premature'. What defines 'snuffing out characters prematurely'? Not everyone in the community will agree to an exact definition. Is it the first encounter? Third? Fifth? Do you have to allow the Demon to ascend to Kaor before putting it down? Does the Demon have to wait until you've gotten a few hiddens?

[rea]

antagonists have access to skills that are far more powerful than what most "protagonists" have access to. this is the boon of playing an antagonist. it is not to be spared in dangerous situations because "that's snuffing a character that could have brought plot and is boring", especially because they rarely, rarely think the same of any character that they put in a dangerous situation because "i am an antagonist, it is my ic"