[Seraphite]

So, let's be honest. We're all staring at the argument in the discussion channel right now. A lot of questions are being asked.

What constitutes valid reasoning? 

And my proposal is, quite bluntly, to make it no matter anymore. It's obvious that there's always going to be conflict in terms of what counts and what doesn't, and truth be told, the lines are blurry.

Get rid of the "(if they don't have a valid reason)" specification on 2v1s in settlements. It does not need to be there.

[Jumpy]

I'm not staring at the discussion channel.

But the rules are pretty clear cut on 2v1's from running into settlements. If you're going there without a valid reason then you're subjected to it or fighting with infinite intervenes.
Either way when someone is in another person's settlement attacking them the person attacked is the one who has the priority over the settings, meaning that if an outsider attacks you at home you're free to just do a danger 0 to kick them out; this was established back when people ran up to Achyon's gates and would request cap 4's against our people.

[Lammy]

its three interventions now apparently. or maybe its always have been and we didnt read it all. :/

but the rule is pretty clear cut. If you come into a territory without reason or anything valid, and no one can handle you individually, its a 2v1.

[Didos]

Since from the beginning of this Wipe, as previously said by Jumpy - there was a 2v1 rule to deal with those who entered enemy territory! Because if you go where people live, you have to expect extreme adversity - it's their home, their faction, where there are armies!
 
If it was not this way, powerhouse characters would just go around murdering people in the middle of their cities and walking away after doing so.. So we need to make this pretty clear, to avoid further problems.

[Sandshark]

The Shadowmire monster rules used to say that anyone entering the Mire was subject to a 2v1 at the monster's discretion because it was a place of danger. When did that get edited?

[Milly]

Hello!
Just to clear some matters up (I will try not to make this post huge and hard to parse).
1) There were two groups of 4 at the time, it wasn't a single person and a dozen monsters, and multiple 1v1s between them all.
2) It was a consensual deadly cap 3, 1v1, not a danger 1. Cap 0s are possible in your own settlement to force people to leave even if they win! That is the standard, not 2v1s.
3) The intervene that followed the capture was a 2v1, even though that's unprecedented. It gave them a much stronger opportunity to be saved.
4) There has (as far as I'm aware), never been an enforced 2v1 in the Shadowmire, and it's very rare in general. That isn't to say there haven't been, as the memory of Seth 2v1ing is still fresh. But he encouraged it and opted into it.
5) The entire scene from start to finish was roughly 6 hours or so; it wasn't something like a swift drive by.

[Toxicity]

4) There has (as far as I'm aware), never been an enforced 2v1 in the Shadowmire, and it's very rare in general. That isn't to say there haven't been, as the memory of Seth 2v1ing is still fresh. But he encouraged it and opted into it.

It was during the first iteration of the academy. Kids were going in and and out and, eventually, after some time they made the rule that kids/others could, and would be 2v1'd for entering the mire (both as punishment for endangering themselves and trying to bully fresh spawns.) 

You were 100% subject to a 2v1 if they so desired and injuring, they just couldn't hit f.

[Osterix]

1) There were two groups of 4 at the time, it wasn't a single person and a dozen monsters, and multiple 1v1s between them all.
2) It was a consensual deadly cap 3, 1v1, not a danger 1. Cap 0s are possible in your own settlement to force people to leave even if they win! That is the standard, not 2v1s.
3) The intervene that followed the capture was a 2v1, even though that's unprecedented. It gave them a much stronger opportunity to be saved.
4) There has (as far as I'm aware), never been an enforced 2v1 in the Shadowmire, and it's very rare in general. That isn't to say there haven't been, as the memory of Seth 2v1ing is still fresh. But he encouraged it and opted into it.
5) The entire scene from start to finish was roughly 6 hours or so; it wasn't something like a swift drive by.

1) Two of them were non-combatants. One of the Mirelings was a 185-ish(i forget the exact number) rpl against a 200+ rpl
2) It was only that way because they were denied the ability to 2v1 to eject the invaders - particularly Illythia, who is vastly more powerful than any of them individually.
3) That was in response to initially being denied a 2v1. They didn't actually have anyone for the 2v1 by this point as the others had left, so they basically had to improvise something.

Regardless though, defenders inside their territory should absolutely be allowed to 2v1 to repel invaders like this. Regardless of where said "settlement" is, you're entering enemy territory where their armies/hordes/whatever reside. You should expect very heavy resistance.

Else we have cases like this of super powerful enemy leaders entering enemy territory and obliterating/yoinking other enemy leaders with little they can do about it.

[Avee]

4) There has (as far as I'm aware), never been an enforced 2v1 in the Shadowmire, and it's very rare in general. That isn't to say there haven't been, as the memory of Seth 2v1ing is still fresh. But he encouraged it and opted into it.

For clarification as far as this particular claim is considered; Yes, it was rare that we would 2v1 people. Mostly because I would encourage my fellow Mirelings at the time to avoid invoking that rule when possible, always trying to ascertain if these ‘visitors’ were there specifically to beat us all up or if their reasoning was less for violence and more for peaceful means. See : Visiting the Cult. (Dante would need to elaborate further on this.)

Specifically, this rule was made shortly after the beginning of the Shadowmire, not necessarily because of children running down, but because of the threat of powerful PCs running down with threats. See : Ryker & Luca enforcing the “No hurty Docro” doctrine. The Duniya Vartuul visit. The Narrator, who I believe is still an active character... and essentially every Osronan PC in a position of power at the time.

Just because the rule was rarely invoked, and when it was we didn’t need an administrator to sort it out, doesn’t mean the rule doesn’t exist.

This isn’t a jab at you, mind you, merely stating the side of a PC who existed in Shadowmire at the time.

Naturally, I am of the belief that whomever the administrator who responded to the ticket was, they made the correct call regarding settlement attack rules. However, I also think looking forward we need to update the rules to reflect the inherent advantage a group has in their territory, to prevent something this... questionable. In my experience, players will behave a certain way if they feel pressured in a certain manner. I believe part of the heart-ache here is in regards to this.

Hey thanks for reading party people.