07-01-2020, 10:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2020, 11:01 PM by Dreamspeaker.)
It's that time when Bog effort posts.
But before we get into it, keep in mind that this is spoken largely from conversations had with people & my own observations/ situations that were provided. I lack full tools to observe everything and everywhere, so something might be off - this, however, seems to be the general consensus of playerbase.
Let's get started.
I will cover several points in here that largely correspond to antagonist-oriented races, as well as relate them to existing issues. They will be posted in problem-solution format.
• Witches
The first pre-ts antagonist class that was introduced. Before, we couldn't really sustain having a witch among us at all - the Occultism is easily found and whatnot, so we had separate settlement for it. However, they were never meant to be an 'open' antagonist, but instead let somebody else do the heavy lifting while they perform shady business from the back. That was, supposedly, the plan for post-ts and for a while it worked.
For a while.
Let's cover hexes.
Problem: the issue seems to be that hardly anybody roleplays hex correctly - but there is no defined way to roleplay it correct, to begin with. People go "why did I suddenly do this", then point fingers, or even downright resist (i.e "I'm feeling like attacking this person, but I won't, because they're relevant to be/ because I was told otherwise/ because I like them/ etc"). In other words, if person really wants to make sure the hex doesn't affect them, they will find a way - or they will find a way to make you pay for it.
Solution: define stricter how hex is roleplayed, set exact limits to what you're allowed to do (whether you can resist it, how and why if yes). Unfortunately, saying that "it's a natural sensation" hasn't really done much, if anything at all - witches tend to be easily discovered after hex and people tend to "resist" it. Also, up the effect back to 3 OOC hours, because the moment it wears out within 1 OOC hour, people do the 180 in their roleplay.
At the very least, witches can usually infiltrate places, but they're often faced with a lot of aforementioned problems regardless.
No other abilities are problematic. Hex seems to be the biggest bane and blessing to witches all the same, which often leads to their premature exposure and them being forced back. Which leads me to second point...
• Mimics/ Demons
Weren't they supposed to be helpers to witches, or at least allies of the dark?
You can apply for witchcraft, make up whatever backstory to develop for it - but you cannot apply to be Demon/ Mimic (no matter whether the application is judged harsh, or there are slot limits), which effectively cuts off witches from having that "hefty lifting force" that was mentioned earlier. There are also at least several other factors to speak about.
Problem: as mentioned above, you cannot apply for either. The only way to obtain one is to rebirth as one - but that's too slow. This is very, very obvious with how things are right now, because there are almost no antagonist-oriented characters*.
* - personal problems, civil wars and political disputes don't count, as these come and go.
Seeing that a huge wave of children spawned in Nysea, some in Myllenoris, some in Osrona, some in Theria or Alabastre, it's rather obvious that we'll have to keep waiting until we get another wave of any antagonist related characters.
And waiting.
And waiting...
And waiting...
Except it's not going to happen. It's very low chance that anybody is going to rebirth into Mimic or Demon, especially under current premise of game - you're asking people to sacrifice their entire character, and relying on somebody dying (or several characters dying) is just... well, not reliable. Even if they do? They're likely to be ganked/ grimed and generally stomped out.
While at it, I should also bring up the fact that Demons/ Mimics are generally either metagamed (in case of mimics), or harshly grimed (in case of demons). While I personally avoid harassing baby demons or mimics, despite having full IC of doing so, usually they're already dead before I even hear of them becoming anybody at all.
Solution: allow role applications for mimics/ demons - at least, until there's more backup to the side of the dark. While ideally you could apply for any race in general, we're currently focused on the issues with antagonist-oriented characters. This would, at the very least, open up opportunity for more characters that support cast of antagonistic side.
However, we already had bad experience of flood of demons coming in. As result, either slots must be limited, or the applications should be judged harsher (depending on amount of demons currently). On top of that, they should never be given any starter bonus - such as what we experienced pre-TS. This should help balance out the tides without clearly overbuffing the antagonist side that is already a dead horse being beaten further anyway.
I'm unsure what to do about people allegedly roaming Dreadwoods with invisibility potions, however, or people generally looking to grime low RPL demons. I personally witnessed it - and it's honestly horrible. The amount of clout chasers makes me go :unamused: very often, and other than literally updating rules about it, I don't know what you can do - since clearly mentality of community is focused about stomping them out before they have any chance to flourish.
TLDR:
• Define hexes better/ increase to 3 OOC hours. Too many people find out easily or even roleplay resisting it/ wait for it to run out (whether intentionally or not).
• Allow applications for mimics/ demons. Waiting on people dying will set us up for a minimum of another 10-15 IC years before antag side flourishes (if at all).
• Do something about the grime. Update rules, or give a form of protection to very low tier antagonists (but not any higher, only for babies).
• Control the flow of anything that antagonists receive. They deserve more backup - but we don't want pre-TS demon flood experience.
This was made after speaking to a lot of people across community on both antagonist side and those that oppose them. The general consensus I often hear is that antagonists are stomped into dirt and current game climate is very comfortable, with very little to challenge status quo.
While political games can certainly shift things around, it only lasts for so long. Besides, wouldn't it be more fun to throw in antags for more chaos even if major conflict happens, anyway?
Once again, keep in mind this is suggestion based on my own observations & me talking to other people. If I missed something/ not aware of something - it is what it is.
But before we get into it, keep in mind that this is spoken largely from conversations had with people & my own observations/ situations that were provided. I lack full tools to observe everything and everywhere, so something might be off - this, however, seems to be the general consensus of playerbase.
Let's get started.
I will cover several points in here that largely correspond to antagonist-oriented races, as well as relate them to existing issues. They will be posted in problem-solution format.
• Witches
The first pre-ts antagonist class that was introduced. Before, we couldn't really sustain having a witch among us at all - the Occultism is easily found and whatnot, so we had separate settlement for it. However, they were never meant to be an 'open' antagonist, but instead let somebody else do the heavy lifting while they perform shady business from the back. That was, supposedly, the plan for post-ts and for a while it worked.
For a while.
Let's cover hexes.
Problem: the issue seems to be that hardly anybody roleplays hex correctly - but there is no defined way to roleplay it correct, to begin with. People go "why did I suddenly do this", then point fingers, or even downright resist (i.e "I'm feeling like attacking this person, but I won't, because they're relevant to be/ because I was told otherwise/ because I like them/ etc"). In other words, if person really wants to make sure the hex doesn't affect them, they will find a way - or they will find a way to make you pay for it.
Solution: define stricter how hex is roleplayed, set exact limits to what you're allowed to do (whether you can resist it, how and why if yes). Unfortunately, saying that "it's a natural sensation" hasn't really done much, if anything at all - witches tend to be easily discovered after hex and people tend to "resist" it. Also, up the effect back to 3 OOC hours, because the moment it wears out within 1 OOC hour, people do the 180 in their roleplay.
At the very least, witches can usually infiltrate places, but they're often faced with a lot of aforementioned problems regardless.
No other abilities are problematic. Hex seems to be the biggest bane and blessing to witches all the same, which often leads to their premature exposure and them being forced back. Which leads me to second point...
• Mimics/ Demons
Weren't they supposed to be helpers to witches, or at least allies of the dark?
You can apply for witchcraft, make up whatever backstory to develop for it - but you cannot apply to be Demon/ Mimic (no matter whether the application is judged harsh, or there are slot limits), which effectively cuts off witches from having that "hefty lifting force" that was mentioned earlier. There are also at least several other factors to speak about.
Problem: as mentioned above, you cannot apply for either. The only way to obtain one is to rebirth as one - but that's too slow. This is very, very obvious with how things are right now, because there are almost no antagonist-oriented characters*.
* - personal problems, civil wars and political disputes don't count, as these come and go.
Seeing that a huge wave of children spawned in Nysea, some in Myllenoris, some in Osrona, some in Theria or Alabastre, it's rather obvious that we'll have to keep waiting until we get another wave of any antagonist related characters.
And waiting.
And waiting...
And waiting...
Except it's not going to happen. It's very low chance that anybody is going to rebirth into Mimic or Demon, especially under current premise of game - you're asking people to sacrifice their entire character, and relying on somebody dying (or several characters dying) is just... well, not reliable. Even if they do? They're likely to be ganked/ grimed and generally stomped out.
While at it, I should also bring up the fact that Demons/ Mimics are generally either metagamed (in case of mimics), or harshly grimed (in case of demons). While I personally avoid harassing baby demons or mimics, despite having full IC of doing so, usually they're already dead before I even hear of them becoming anybody at all.
Solution: allow role applications for mimics/ demons - at least, until there's more backup to the side of the dark. While ideally you could apply for any race in general, we're currently focused on the issues with antagonist-oriented characters. This would, at the very least, open up opportunity for more characters that support cast of antagonistic side.
However, we already had bad experience of flood of demons coming in. As result, either slots must be limited, or the applications should be judged harsher (depending on amount of demons currently). On top of that, they should never be given any starter bonus - such as what we experienced pre-TS. This should help balance out the tides without clearly overbuffing the antagonist side that is already a dead horse being beaten further anyway.
I'm unsure what to do about people allegedly roaming Dreadwoods with invisibility potions, however, or people generally looking to grime low RPL demons. I personally witnessed it - and it's honestly horrible. The amount of clout chasers makes me go :unamused: very often, and other than literally updating rules about it, I don't know what you can do - since clearly mentality of community is focused about stomping them out before they have any chance to flourish.
TLDR:
• Define hexes better/ increase to 3 OOC hours. Too many people find out easily or even roleplay resisting it/ wait for it to run out (whether intentionally or not).
• Allow applications for mimics/ demons. Waiting on people dying will set us up for a minimum of another 10-15 IC years before antag side flourishes (if at all).
• Do something about the grime. Update rules, or give a form of protection to very low tier antagonists (but not any higher, only for babies).
• Control the flow of anything that antagonists receive. They deserve more backup - but we don't want pre-TS demon flood experience.
This was made after speaking to a lot of people across community on both antagonist side and those that oppose them. The general consensus I often hear is that antagonists are stomped into dirt and current game climate is very comfortable, with very little to challenge status quo.
While political games can certainly shift things around, it only lasts for so long. Besides, wouldn't it be more fun to throw in antags for more chaos even if major conflict happens, anyway?
Once again, keep in mind this is suggestion based on my own observations & me talking to other people. If I missed something/ not aware of something - it is what it is.