Poll: Should Light and Shadow lock you out of one another?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Yes, Light and Shadow should lock you out of one another.
39.39%
13 39.39%
No, it's fine.
30.30%
10 30.30%
Light should lock you out of Shadow AND Occult and Shadow should lock you out of Light AND Holy
15.15%
5 15.15%
Any of Light and Shadow and their related trees should lock you out of the rest of their related trees. (Light locks you out of occult, shadow, AND illusion, Shadow locks you out of Light, Cosmic, AND Holy)
15.15%
5 15.15%
Total 33 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

LorelaiShadow and Light double standard
#1
Double Standard
Im a little confused. 
Holy and Occult are supposed to be the supreme magics of good and evil that if combined gives you, or gets you as close as possible to divine magic or the power of creation. You cant wield both unless you have divine blood, basically you are an angel or some kind of half angel maybe. 

Cosmic and Illusion are closely related to these magics but arent quite those magics.
But now theres super versions of these magics, light and shadow.

And you cant wield holy and occult, but you can wield holy and shadow, and you can wield light and occult. And even worse, you can wield light and shadow. 

??????

I feel like light and shadow should be equally restrictive to holy and occult and dont let you mix the good and the evil, even if you are some kind of evil cosmic mage or some kind of pious illusion mage. Even if they arent holy and occult, they are kinda the super versions of holy and occult. 


IC concerns
And this is about the IC of things but for some reason shadow and illusion arent held to the same standard as occult, but blood is. But cosmic is held to the same standard as holy and light. You're telling me its more IC evil to use your blood as a weapon than to use the shadows and literal darkness of the world and to distort reality with magic closely tied to occult magic?



I somehow wanted to link this to witchcraft but at this point Im just more confused about the double standard and the IC. If Light Magic and Shadow magic arent super versions of holy/occult and their related magics why can you only build it out of holy/occult when holy/occult are already gated and treated like advanced magics such as plasma and ice.


Edit: Maybe not make Light and Shadow linked to Holy / Occult if you think they should be used together?
Edit: I added a poll to get an idea of community response and forgot to include this:

If Light and Shadow are not super versions of Holy and Occult, then maybe instead of being gated by Holy and Occult magic maybe they should just be gated by RPP? Like maybe if you are under 150/180 rpp you cant buy into it? Post below your thoughts!
Reply
#2
I think it is mechanically overwhelming, and it should only be rewarded going forward as a kind of end-game goal / exalted+ tier magic. But it is thematically cool and it is possible IC.

Since you seem to be unaware, Shadow can be acquired via either Occult or Illusion, and Light can be acquired via either Holy or Cosmic. They're not tied to holy/occult.
Reply
#3
I think Shadow should lock you out of Light, and vice-versa, but not out of their respective trees, no.

There are other ways to manipulate shadow that doesn't necessarily means to be (edgy) Occult things, such as illusions, or some mana related martial arts techniques (something a little ninja'ish) and other approaches someone can take. It doesn't have to be about being dark occultic to be able to tap with the shadows.

Though I have to admit that it is really contradictory and strange to see Light and Shadow being used together. Not impossible, but it's really strange from an IC point of view since one art is about the literal manipulation of shadows into physical and tangible forms, and the other is the manipulation of the literal antithesis of what shadows are. And the vice versa, for Light as well.
Reply
#4
I feel like its half a foot in and half a foot out of different magics. Like yeah illusion and cosmic exist so you dont have to be exorcist/occultist when it comes to light and shadow, but its like, isnt the point of light and shadow to be ultimate versions? so shouldnt they operate the same? and if not why not just separate them and let them be exalted trees accessible to anyone and everyone who hit the right threshold of power?
Reply
#5
I have to agree with keeping the two separated on player entities. Light can cast a shadow and vice versia, but neither ever really mix. I don't think it's wise to allow a player mechanically have access to both ultimate forms of already powerful trees. Looking at it from an in character perspective, it feels like its beyond a normal magi's reach and should be left to 1% of the population with incredible dev. I'm not saying its impossible, but surely it must be considered heavily in an app and treated like our old mystic tier rating.
[Image: Zbax0jx.gif]
Reply
#6
Holy VS Occult, I understand the issue: One is supposedly worships holy things, and is supposed to be prone to good acts, while the other is the exact opposite: Unholy things, and prone to bad acts.

Shadow VS Light, however? I see it like a mage that uses both fire and water- An odd mix, but doable. In fact, as someone who long ago had a character that roleplayed controlling and using shadow abilities by manipulating the light around it, I can see how shadow and light can work both ICly, and mechanically around each other (Provided they are both considered alignment neutral trees, like cosmic and illusion)

As for Cosmic VS illusion, the main reason for why cosmic still requires deving, is because it requires knoweldge and understanding of the lore around the magic in eternia 3, and to show how you use it (either making new constellations for your character to obtain power from, or use from existing ones lore wise).
Reply
#7
I think it's very possible for both to intermingle. Without light there is no shadow, and while that holds no candle towards the argument it shows that the two co-exist on a plane. Shadow Magic isn't evil, just as Light Magic isn't good. You don't have to be a worshiper of some benevolent god/goddess to receive Light Magic. Nor do you have to sacrifice animals and commit acts of sin to achieve shadow magic.

It's a view point, in my opinion. Such as right and wrong.

I also feel that this is targeted very harshly towards the only person who has both. (Or only person to my knowledge.)
Reply
#8
Light and darkness themselves are not entirely evil. Sure, going down the path of occult and darkness would be evil overall, just the same as going holy and light. I don’t see an issue with people getting both, I’ve actually seen the opposite when it comes to flavoring it.
Reply
#9
There is no substantial lore reason to split the two, and if someone wants to make a rad character concept (and eat it through the fucking nose in RPP costs) to be a menacing combat lightswitch then why shouldn't that? It's fluffy, it's fun, it's harmless. There is no lore by light and shadow, just assumed stuff given the connotations to holy/occult.

Light/Shadow itself is not arcane magic, as far as I can tell. Holy and Occult are, and they're mutually exclusive because a person dipping into the corruptible nature of occult naturally doesn't have the presence of mind to wild holy magics.

(also rename holy magic because it's not some divine thing, anyway.)
Reply
#10
"Holy and Occult are supposed to be the supreme magics of good and evil that if combined gives you, or gets you as close as possible to divine magic or the power of creation."
- Correct & Wrong. Mixing both of these will lead you to exploding out of no where unless you're an angel/kraus/etc.

"Cosmic and Illusion are closely related to these magics but arent quite those magics."
- Wrong. Cosmic is utilizing the power of the stars. Illusion is more-so used to interrupt mana and make them feel/see/etc in the illusion.

"I feel like light and shadow should be equally restrictive to holy and occult and don't let you mix the good and the evil, even if you are some kind of evil cosmic mage or some kind of pious illusion mage. Even if they arent holy and occult, they are kinda the super versions of holy and occult."

- If they were supposed to be restrictive, they would've came out that way from the start. There is a reason there is a secondary to illusion and there is a secondary to cosmic. Not to be evil/good since those 'alignments' are from the IC perspective of what people see your character is; also it's not super versions.

"And this is about the IC of things but for some reason shadow and illusion aren't held to the same standard as occult, but blood is. But cosmic is held to the same standard as holy and light. You're telling me its more IC evil to use your blood as a weapon than to use the shadows and literal darkness of the world and to distort reality with magic closely tied to occult magic?"

- Blood is "illegal" due to IC reasons while Shadow and Illusion are more for people who want to prank around and joke about it. It's about how you fluff it and utilize it more than anything else. However, IC can make Shadow/Illusion illegal if the law is changed due to IC reasons.
Reply
Topic Options
Forum Jump:




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)