[Ashclout]

Some trees have all their spells set at 10, others have the 10s and random 15s. Now I believe it was done in E3 to make it easier to reach the 50 RPP requirement to have access to intermediates because some trees didn't have enough spells, but 

A) the system was changed from 50 RPP for all the trees, to 50 for bases and 40 for 'specialized' trees.

B) Because some trees didn't have enough spells, but that is no longer true.

I just don't understand reason why some trees nowadays, get 10s all across the board and others get 15s. It'd be nice if there was a defined chart for costs so it isn't just random.

So here's my suggestion :

Openers for basic trees (Fire, Wind, Earth, Water, Ether, Meta, Bio) : 10 RPP 

Openers Armed / unarmed  : 20 RPP

Openers for advanced trees : 20 RPP

Combat styles : 5 RPP

Basic spells : 10 RPP 

Intermediate spells : 10 RPP 

Master auras : 10 RPP 

Master spells : 15 RPP

[Detective100]

There are some spells or abilities that are actually a tad better than the norm, and cost more RPP as a result. Part of the balance from what I can see.

Quick examples that come to mind:
Smog(poison)- 15 rpp, a mist form that also damages those that get too close.
Metal- Titan's Lance is a menace, and Iron Grip is a skill so useful people go to metal just to have it for combo potential.
Crushing Iron, though? . . . Maybe, maybe, it can be lowered to 10 rpl. It can still shred if landed point blank though, since then you can get hit by two or even three of the chains that come out if postioned correctly.

Devouring Winds(tempest)-  The only toggle buff available that isn't a master. The cost to getting it has to be steep, so that it won't end up as a dip into tempst just to get a toggle buff for more power.

[Ashclout]

The cost of a spell is never taken into account in balance. Try defending the fact that a spell is OP because it costs 5 RPP more, people don't care about it. It is not a valid argument.

[Jumpy]

if the cost of a spell would never be taken into account in balance you wouldn't be talking about intermediates/masters which have a higher cost effectively
some spells cost 15 literally to make it easier for the tree to function and making them cost 10 would make the tree worse because you'd have to buy an extra spell and waste more points just to compensate (ie: phantom strikes being 15 because stances are 5 to make the number round)
not only that, but 15 cost spells usually boil down to answering the question: would this be amazing on literally any build

phantom strikes, sanctuary, energy shield, smog, wound reversal, eviscerate, illusion flurry, pyroclasm

all of those are 15 cost, and all of those are either insanely good or a better version of an existing spell (like smog)
and yes, i believe phantom is both worth to pay more for (to keep mages from dipping for it) and makes it easier for armed users to be armed, it's an ideal scenario

and if this is all because you're playing metal and think 15 RPP costs is a lot for its big spells it's good to remember that they deal a ton of damage, CC, and naturally combo into eachother so you can dump half or more of your bar on someone who's defenseless in some scenarios off of landing 1 homing

the point i'll concede is that 3 spells being 15 RPP is a lot for 1 tree but, like, they're all extremely good spells and them being in the same tree shouldn't take away from the prior logic of "would this spell be good slapped on any build"

[Touc]

Your idea that certain spells are simply amazing on any build falls apart when you look at the costs of some spells that are almost universally amazing and others which are niche. Let me give some examples.

Explosive Mines is one of the best spells in the game. It costs 10 RPP.

Accelerate and Wither are amazing on any build. They cost 10 RPP.

Black Hole is a great AOE spell that can severely screw an opponent's positioning. It costs 10 RPP.

Vines are incredible on any build because of them being free summons, but they cost 10 RPP.

Piercing Strike is a Lightning spell that anyone, at this point, can block or dodge. It costs 15 RPP.

Occult/Holy Cannon are 15 RPP each despite being Masters that aren't necessarily good on every single build (compare this to Occult's Curse, which is one of the best homings in the game).

I could go on.

[Ashclout]

"All because you play metal"

Quick to pull the trigger you maxi best of.

Now I can concede that, by lowering the cost across the board would, maybe, be detrimental in the sense that players will have more freedom to take spells that interest them. 

However....

Can you explain to me how lowering the costs would make the tree worse? You said you would have an extra spell to buy, but... how is that bad? 

Instead of doing 15 + 15, you would do 10 + 10 + 10 and thus have an extra spell. An extra spell you could choose to keep or not on your bar, an extra spell you could slot in specific situations... so you would have more flexibility? Something, I know it isn't your forte but anyway.

Spells costing 15 RPP forces you to take a certain path. Take Energy for example. 80% of users will buy the shield (15 RPP), ebeam (15 RPP), and another spell to get access to intermediate. But what if you want to be different? What if you want the beam, but not the shield or vice versa. You are stuck with an uneven number.

And again, costs are never discussed when talking about balance.

I go back on what I said, basic should be 10 across the board. Intermediates 15. 

Why is a chart important? Because then you are left with uneven trees, and racials. Glad you mentioned my character, I am a hive kin, all my racials cost... 0. Now most of them arent spells you can use, butbthe toggle giving me 40 vit is certainly useful. Though every other racial besides humans has a cost?

Its just weird balance.

[Simonh2000]

The cost of a spell is never taken into account in balance. Try defending the fact that a spell is OP because it costs 5 RPP more, people don't care about it. It is not a valid argument.

on the contrary, the more expensive a spell or tree is, the more prohibitive it is to buy in combination with other powerful spells. if you consider the average 200 rpp as a budget for buying spells, higher spell costs help limit the amount of (for lack of a better term) broken bullshit combinations someone can feasibly make within the same build.

[Powerjake]

yeah why are some masteries 10 and some 15 but some that cost less are literally better than the more expensive ones

[Touc]

Spells costing 15 RPP forces you to take a certain path. Take Energy for example. 80% of users will buy the shield (15 RPP), ebeam (15 RPP), and another spell to get access to intermediate. But what if you want to be different? What if you want the beam, but not the shield or vice versa. You are stuck with an uneven number.

If you're not taking eshield and ebeam with Energy you're making a huge mistake, given that Force Wave and Energy Burst are both absolute dumpster fire spells. If you want the aura, just take it with ebeam/eshield, it's not that expensive

I was always under the impression that ebeam and eshield were 15 RPP specifically so that you could skip the rest of the tree if you wanted to get to intermediates due to the other basic spells (aside from constrict) being bad.

[Simonh2000]

Can you explain to me how lowering the costs would make the tree worse? You said you would have an extra spell to buy, but... how is that bad? 

Instead of doing 15 + 15, you would do 10 + 10 + 10 and thus have an extra spell. An extra spell you could choose to keep or not on your bar, an extra spell you could slot in specific situations... so you would have more flexibility? Something, I know it isn't your forte but anyway.

the math on this is simple... in the case of armed, as jumpy said, you're spending another 5 rpp for an armed stance. that in addition to the 20 rpp cost of dash strike means you'll need another 25 rpp spent in addition to reach armed's intermediates. phantom strikes (15 rpp) + anything else you'd want (10 rpp) would then get you to 50.

if phantom strikes was 10 instead, you'd end up with 45 spent in that same scenario, and you'd need to buy another spell to reach the intermediates, costing a total of 55 rpp. you'd be spending 5 more in that example, not less