MallowSandwitches and Nekrodancers (an effort post)
#1
Witches:

+ Capable of gaining essence by just fighting aggros (1) and dangers (2).
+ Capable of gaining esssence without having to fight, too.

- Has a mark on their body, which when exposed outs them.
- Has a place where, if people decide to camp again, outs them without a mask.
- Does not get special ores nor anything special without developing it and slapping in an app, which takes a while.
- Has to wait for good things to come.

Necromancers:

- Has to perm others to gain essence, and only then can make skeletons to farm dangers for them, win or lose.
- Has to treat and care for the new skeleton as if it was a new baby, which can be draining if the necromancer doesn't have alchemy or artifcing.
- Takes the risk of having low-tier roleplayers that do not take the roleplay serious (this hasn't happened yet, i believe)

+ Gains special ore if they have the resource to do it and can slap it on to a weapon, making it stronger.
+ Can put an emporium to have undead skeletons to farm undeath, which makes things easier.
+ Death's Door.
+ More stuff...

I don't see anything wrong with antagonists having to fight to gain their stuff. Without these mechanical benefits, the tools for pushing story would be hidden over asking for assistance from admins and head admins for help, which E4 is trying to avoid by putting things in control of the player. The only issue is, only a handful of players actively try to push for new, inclusive stuff for the game to enjoy while thinking of mechanics secondary.

Antagonists are built on being oppressive and having to do things that others don't enjoy, making 'protagonists' reactionary and causes the chain reaction in making a good story. Bad people do things that are bad for the world, and good people react for the better of it. There is nothing entirely wrong with this, and the story can keep going forever and ever, adding new things as long as the imagination pool continues.

But there is an issue when those antagonists have to suffer from others that just don't react or try to enjoy the scene. Those that like to remain, dare say, 'neutral', end up just wanting to fight to enjoy their neutral roleplay, which is fine. When you add mechanics to the game that promote strength by dangering and deadlying others to stay on top to enjoy their 'neutral' roleplay, you end up with some people just sitting back at the peak of their power, not capable of getting any stronger because they reach that point of stagnancy.

The second problem is when the antagonists get oppressed and incapable of doing nothing for the narrative because these neutral, mechanical players, only desire to have their own neutral roleplay gained and bitch and moan when it gets bothered by the slightest inconvenience.

While I understand the notion of people not wanting to end up as mere dev fodder to Antagonists that assault people to push a story or plot, to raise awareness and make changes in the world, when mechanics are added, the story gets lost in the mix and the issue of telling a story in review can get ruffed up and aimless. Sadly, it is the state of things.

I have a few mild suggestions that can help people avoid the woes of not wanting their roleplay ruined because they play the game differently:

- Add a way for undeath to be gained differently, maybe through a union of necromancer and a ritual that leaves a temporary injury / permanent injury for the amount of undeath they get and the amount of people that are around.

- Allow a method for witches to summon literal demon ecs that can impact the game state. These will be random ecs that anyone could play that have the main objective of spreading fear and distraught. Not only will this make stories rise and spread that awareness, but it will make people engage in the story more with small rewards being gained.

- Allow a method for Necromancers to summon an unholy, edgy skeleton monster that attacks and roams, similar to witches.

- Remove the mechanics entirely (which will make the game boring and sad.)

I would like to think that through the essence gained, summoning them would be taking a lot which determines the strength of the EC, making it 2v1 or even 3v1 with the right tools. It could also be used in raids and the like to give those that don't get a match up something to do in the meantime. The EC isn't meant to last more than a week or two, and during that time of fighting, win or lose, it goes back to these witches/necromancers so that they can continue to make these ECs and impact the game more.

I offer anyone else to discuss this (civilly) but with how much monkeys' trolls we have I can expect this thread to be closed in the next 2 days.
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#2
I love the EC idea. Thanks. I am copying it for later.
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#3
Witch spell that spawns a mega-yokai NPC just strong enough to kick the shins of newbies that lingers around until reboot.

For every person it knocks down, it deals a temp wound and generates 0.5 essence.

Witches can collect the essence within by right clicking.
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#4
So long as these ECs are actually temporary, I don't see why not. Such a temporary terror should be enforced to be just like that, sort've like how Demons in Warhammer eventually fade back to the warp after a set period unless they have a host or source of power to feed on.

Mostly because if they are not temporary they will be a hindering force rather than a progressive one.
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#5
About necromancers... To frank? They are doing quite well nowadays, now that they have multiple undead to draw essence from.

Here's the gist- Most people are willing to go with just danger 0 against freshly made skellies. I say 'just danger 0' on purpose, because that is the bare minimum they need to harvest essence win or lose, with only a 1/6 chance of getting perm.

Even if the skeleton ends up too permed to continue fighting? So long as they get 5 essence from 5 dangers, they can at least go even with their value, and then they can keep going to go over the the inital cost of making them for their necromancers.
In fact, I may go so far as to say that gathering essence is too easy for undead, as the amount can rack up quickly as you keep making more and more undead to throw in for danger 0s  Blush

Witches though?  Yeah, they don't have as much growth potential in comparison. Perhaps intended truthfully, given they get essence from aggro as well.
Still, having more cool stuff to do with the essence as a witch could be nice. Witches are supposed to work as a group, so maybe let them have high-cost options that require a lot of essence gathered from multiple witches to use like summoning demons as you mentioned (The exact details as to how and what the EC will mechanically will need to be ironed out).

Another option for witches perhaps, is the ability to heal up perms with enough essence with maybe some visual twists: Lost an arm? Here is an arm made out of shadows for you to use courtesy of witches!
How much will they be able to heal the perm can be variable (arcanium kit level, scarring all the way to -1 vit, or even fully perming it). Can also have it so that the perm heals will have IC visuals striking enough for others to notice and react to, like a witch's mark that can't be hidden away.


P.S: I believe the mark can be visibly hidden with so that people won't be able to exploit it to expose witches.
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#6
No free perm healing, not again. Ty. Kitting them maybe…still I don’t like that mechanism.
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#7
On paper, Necromancy is kind of insane in how quickly it can snowball. In practice I think playercounts kind of act as a limiter.
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#8
(09-30-2022, 02:52 PM)Enginseer-42 Wrote: On paper, Necromancy is kind of insane in how quickly it can snowball. In practice I think playercounts kind of act as a limiter.

Kinda fits the theme of undead hordes and having to be proactive to prevent them from overrunning the general populace
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#9
(09-30-2022, 02:23 PM)Nerdlord57 Wrote: So long as these ECs are actually temporary, I don't see why not. Such a temporary terror should be enforced to be just like that, sort've like how Demons in Warhammer eventually fade back to the warp after a set period unless they have a host or source of power to feed on.

Mostly because if they are not temporary they will be a hindering force rather than a progressive one.

It would be nice, seeing that the EC would be piloted by someone trustworthy with the parameters being:
  • They last 1-2 years max and die out naturally.
  • They die, and loot drops for others to use and add to their dev.
  • They can be made on a cool down of three years or so, so that it isn't spammed over and over.
That way, there will always be something for people to do, even in the morning hours. People will be able to develop off of something and a story can be told without much intervention from the admin team except moderating what it does. Some special rules added as well so that it isn't used a griming machine and fixed so that it can be 2v1 or 3v1 material.
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#10
(09-30-2022, 06:06 PM)Mallow Wrote: [*]They die, and loot drops for others to use and add to their dev.

personally i'd like anything like that to not drop any loot because it'll just be treated like a piñata instead of a threat; the incentive to kill it should be, in my opinion, strictly related to its effects on the world + the people in it

also, bluntly, i don't trust a lot of players to not job to their friends on the EC for loot gains
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