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AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Prestige - 07-14-2020
Hey.
You can already guess what this thread is about, so let's just get to it: AoEs. They suck. 90% of the AoE spells in the game are bad. First off, let's start by listing the good ones so we can see what makes them good (and then draw conclusions for the other spells).
Volcano - Frankly, it is not as good as people think it is, but it's a step in the right direction. An AoE with damage that basically can't be avoided unless you have an immunity and extra damage if you step on certain tiles. Fair. What makes it bad is the fact that it has a cd of a minute, which means that it's rather suboptimal (but we aren't here to discuss magma <3)
Earthquake - Nearly impossible to avoid but the bigger reason is the fact that it has no clear borders so people are sort of misled by the spell. Still, it does its job well and it's an actually good AoE. Cool.
The last one is a big one, as it's (imo) the best AoE in the game.
Let's talk about Crystal AoE.
What is there to say about this magnificent beast that hasn't been said before?
![[Image: anigif_sub-buzz-18245-1536877663-5.gif?o...size=360:*]](https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2018-09/13/18/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web-01/anigif_sub-buzz-18245-1536877663-5.gif?output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&downsize=360:*)
Thank you Lady Gaga, I'll take it from here. (stream chromatica for good skin <3)
This spell is everything an AoE wishes it could be. The damage on it is instant (yes, you heard it right, instant! you don't need to somehow trap ur opponent for 10 second so they can take ticks, but rather, it does damage immediately! amazing isn't it?) but to make it even BETTER. This spell deletes every projectile from the game. Just like that. Not only it has 11 damage (and following ticks), but it also protects you from orb-spells, javelins, fast-moving projectiles, and so on. You could call it the dash strike of mages but the only difference is not all of us have it.
Now, since people are usually only convinced by numbers, let me show some of the worse AoEs here.
Black Hole - This one is tricky but the main reason why it sucks is how easy it is to avoid. Yes, even easier than traditional AoEs. It's basically an outdated version of Volcano. It deals 4.5 damage per tick and has 38 seconds of CD, but how long it takes for it to start makes it kind of bad.
Inferno - This is actually just crystal wall. But it doesn't delete spells. And it doesn't have a good range. So it's a much worse crystal aoe. I will say that it doesn't deserve being as good or even buffed until a bigger issue in Explosion is addressed (yes I am looking at YOU Pyroclasm)
Flood - 4 damage per tick, 42 seconds of CD. it does, however, heal you for your rpl x 2. So it's just a much worse version of Melodic Repose. Isn't that nice?
Pond - 6 damage and 25 seconds of CD. Don't let the CD distract you though. You are only landing one tick, which means this is worse than practically every homing in the game. This needs to have higher damage and higher CD.
White Squall - Atrocious range. It does deal nice damage and also has a 25 CD, but the range is dogshit. It needs its CD upped along with a damage & range increase.
QUICK EDIT: I forgot to mention Holy/Occult/Cosmic AoEs. Their damage seems to be fine now considering how big they are (mostly Holy/Occult). Cosmic is mostly fine too, since it lacks damage but has a pretty great slow.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Trenton - 07-14-2020
Crystal does not delete every projectile. It only deletes linear-type spells.
Which is still strong, but wholly irrelevant against spells you want it to block like sear, like meteor, like scattering lights, blood bomb, Ice Aura Q, rings of malice, spores, or anything that it would be useful blocking.
Barring the Javelin spells it only blocks the stream of 1 spell damage that orb spells produce which is not a big dealbreaker regardless.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Prestige - 07-14-2020
(07-14-2020, 04:50 PM)Trenton Wrote: Crystal does not delete every projectile. It only deletes linear-type spells.
Which is still strong, but wholly irrelevant against spells you want it to block like sear, like meteor, like scattering lights, blood bomb, Ice Aura Q, rings of malice, spores, or anything that it would be useful blocking.
Barring the Javelin spells it only blocks the stream of 1 spell damage that orb spells produce which is not a big dealbreaker regardless.
Those are homing(s), so they don't count.
Sear and meteor don't need to be blocked when they circle your opponent and do a whole 360 before dealing one tick of damage.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Oyster. - 07-14-2020
tooltip dmg on holydark are wrong they weak suck
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Prestige - 07-14-2020
(07-14-2020, 04:58 PM)Oyster. Wrote: tooltip dmg on holydark are wrong they weak suck
if the damage isn't correct then i agree. bad. needs to be changed xoxo
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Jess - 07-14-2020
Cosmic's aoe slow is bad, it would be better off as just another Holy/Occult aoe variant. One press of a spacebar and Star Rain's slow ends (since the duration is only 1s now, the slow ends before the dash finishes in most cases)
So all you're really left with unless someone camps within it's small range is about 1-2 tics of 4 spell damage at most, and a slow that's usually hard to capitalize on because again.. anyone with sense dashes out of it. Though compared to magma aoe which is 9 spell damage and same size/cd... there's a clear indication of which is way better.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Avee - 07-14-2020
Find a way to balance them to where cancer AoE builds are impossible and you have my vote.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Detective100 - 07-14-2020
All right, lets give this a go.
Volcano: The CD may make it, I don't less supotimal-but less spammable, one note that wasn't mentioned is how just like Earthquake, it has a invisible hit range just like Earthquake, and a massive one at that. Unless you somehow got to learn the range by heart by sparring against a volcano user, you're going to end up walking into its range whether you planned to or not.
The invisible range and its large reach, which effectively makes the damage near unavoidable if you put the volcano at the center? Makes it hard for me to agree in reducing the CD.
Earthquake: To be honest, I've rarely seen this spell being used. Perhaps criminically so, now that I've seen how it's CD is actually -half- that of Volcano. I recall the borders of the move indeed being unclear, but I do not know its range, or how long it lasts for me to make to reach a more clear consensus on the move.
Black Hole: This AoE, is one of the moves where you need to set up for it. If you get your enemy to dash for example, and then follow it up with a slow before putting in the black hole?
It is going to put in the work. It not having a clear range also helps. You can put black hole down as a defensive action, knowing the enemy won't risk walking in and risk getting sucked in- Let alone, dashing into it.
Its a good move, both in offense, and defense, and the damage from it can rack up rapidly if you catch a slowed opponent in its radius.
Inferno: I agree here. This, is probably among the worse AoE moves. However, I think this is because the move acts both as a ground AoE, and a damaging AoE move like lightning burst. Focusing on one or the other might give the move more of an identity.
Flood: As someone who had melodic repose? This is where I disagree wholeheartily. I admit that I do not know the exact difference in healing per tick, and healing overall, but Flood has something important that Melodic repose doesn't: Damage ticks, and painful ones at that. Unlike repose, where an enemy could walk into the AoE to keep fighting, if someone were to charge into flood? Damage would start racking up.
Pond: Haven't seen it yet, so I can't comment on it.
White Squall: I haven't seen the move in action, so I can't comment much on it as well. I've seen someone buying the skills to experiment with it, but that's about it. Range overall seems decent to me, though- Not every AoE has to fill up somewhere between half to third of the RPB arena's size.
Holy/occult AoEs, and Cosmic AoE:
I agree with what you said. Holy/Occult's damage and range make them decent AoEs (In particular, the larger intermediate versions). Cosmic's AoE seems decent enough overall, as well.
Now, for the last, and not least...
Crystal wall: This is where we somehow both agree, but would end up at odds.
Crystal wall, currently? Is indeed the best AoE. Instant damage on cast, extra damage on people if they stay in the wall, and the added bonus of blocking linear projectiles makes for the best AoE to be used defensively.
In fact, it is so good, that I started to think of it as perhaps being too good. It deters from going into melee range due to the damage ticks, and the linear projectiles which one would normally use to poke in such a scenario will be rendered useless.
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Gab - 07-14-2020
I feel like making a few of these more predictable in their arrival, but also easier to set up would tip them towards being healthier for the playstyles of both users and targets.
- On the topic of Explosion's balancing, Pyroclasm definitely used to offer a larger time window to be evaded when it was a GCD Charge spell, but it also allowed the caster to pop one or two gap closers to get there on time, while structuring a more effective combo with good reliability. It offered a higher risk, but also a higher reward, while not being a guaranteed combo starter.
If Pyroclasm was set to healthier standards, I wouldn't be against seeing Inferno be converted into a Cast Buff that spawns a lingering AoE to follow you around, much like Supernova's passive effect (but actually 3x3 or larger, rather than 1x3). I find this to be more faithful to the spell's name than its current iteration, maybe?
- Black Hole, too, could still retain its delayed activation to justify its high proc damage, but function similarly to Tornado or Spores rather than build itself up stationarily. In an experimental scenario, a charge effect overlaps the caster and after three seconds, the Black Hole is released ahead of them by a range of about 3 or 4 tiles (perhaps more). They can still see it coming, absolutely, but you would at least have a chance to pursue and unleash it at a more favorable spot while capitalizing on zoning them in. Or out?
RE: AoEs - Area of (in)Efficiency - Jumpy - 07-14-2020
even if you buff every aoe you'll need to nerf crystal wall.
it's that good.
why does it have to nuke instantly linger and block projectiles
the damage comes from its intended effect not working back in the days, yet now that the effect works the damage is still there.