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+--- Thread: Meta & Viability (/thread-2340.html)
Meta & Viability - Leeroy_Pancake - 04-10-2020
What is, 'The Meta'? To some, it's obvious. The strongest abilities, the strongest combo, the Best. This can vary, based on who is asked. Some would cry that, certain combos, or even just singular spell trees, were over powered, or still are over powered or stay over powered despite valid reasoning not to be... This isn't a salt thread about those, and here's why: In every game, the meta changes. Creators, Designers, Programmers... A Team, all work to create checks and balances to a game. In doing this, the meta of a game will always change. This isn't necessarily a good, or bad thing. Change happens whether it's wanted or not. For some that means having to change your outlook. For others that means a chance to be at the top. That's all there really is to it, for most people.
Now the reason, I don't specifically mention any current or past metas here, is because: In the end, it doesn't matter towards my point. I'm not here to talk about the meta, only to distinguish it for what it is. The Meta is simply, the Strongest current Combo/Ability/Technique what have you. The Most Optimal way to win, reduced to a few words.
With that said, I personally feel, that the game's current Viability is steadily decreasing. Now I use that word carefully here, I distinguish it as it's own thing, for a reason. In this case, I say Viability, as: A means to win, that is not necessarily the Best, but is capable of competing with the meta, without being one itself. It is a combination, that, while strong, is only made strong because of a person using it correctly. To many it might seem weak, either because it is inefficient costs, or an unpopular theme, or it has flaws that many would consider to hindering. And in this sense, the options for viable builds, is being restricted more and more. I notice with more and more change logs, that trees are being nerfed, rather than buffed. I'm here, to argue the opposite. Allow me to explain.
Do I disagree with the changes? Only some what. I believe changes should be made, that certain combinations or singular paths, are simply, too strong, or too weak. This happens, and balancing is needed. But I would argue that instead of weakening certain paths, that others be strengthened to compete. That more combinations be allowed to compete, especially as the overall options themselves, are restricted due to costs. I believe that, in weakening certain paths, but in rarely strengthening most, it creates a situation in which people will attempt to break the game more, in order to be on par with the current meta, as that doesn't feel as though it's truly changed in quite some time.
Do I think all spell trees should be made overpowered? Yes and no. I don't agree with either extreme, of overtuning or undertuning everything to be on the same level. But it should all be on the same level. And if I had the choice of feeling stronger, or weaker, as a result? I feel like many would prefer to feel stronger, even if the end result is the same. Because in the end, people play games for a power fantasy. I know for me personally, I don't play just to roleplay a weak peasant, just because I didn't choose to take the meta route. I roleplay to feel powerful, maybe an underdog who, despite not taking ultra-powerful routes, is capable of competing through sheer skill and proficiency. I prefer to imagine a world where hard work can beat talent, and as it currently stands, that really isn't the case. You may start in a low position, but if you lack 'the meta', there are few viable choices to compete.
Ultimately, my suggestion, is to expand these choices. I honestly can't imagine that as a bad thought, but I can imagine those who'd disagree.
I fully believe this to be a controversial opinion, and it is just that, an opinion. But it is a solid one, and one I've given quite a lot of thought. Seeing the game from the start, and following until where it is now, and even seeing fairly easily, where it is going, given predictability, I want to try and curve things to a hopefully more positive path... As well, as try and vent my mind, without too much salt, as easy as that would be at many times.
RE: Meta & Viability - BrahmsFrost - 04-10-2020
I just wish they did tune the weaker trees. Like example Magma got buffed and then apparently nerfed again.
Or take Riptide as an example. A tree that really doesn't offer much. Even the Rings are terrible.
Compared to say Occult, Holy or Cosmic, which have plenty of choices already.
RE: Meta & Viability - Prestige - 04-10-2020
(04-10-2020, 05:50 PM)BrahmsFrost Wrote: I just wish they did tune the weaker trees. Like example Magma got buffed and then apparently nerfed again.
Or take Riptide as an example. A tree that really doesn't offer much. Even the Rings are terrible.
Compared to say Occult, Holy or Cosmic, which have plenty of choices already.
magma wasn't as bad as ppl made it to be, and now it's one of the strongest trees you can pair (both for mages and melee, isn't that funny). 20 dmg homing, an aoe that's better than occult/holy with a 20 secs cd... an invul. great aura. amazing tree.
riptide isn't a bad tree either, i'm afraid. people love to hate on stuff that they don't see used because... that's the way it is in the community, i guess. crystal was treated the same before the TS, despite many of us knowing that it was extremely strong and nobody cared to go for it.
the truth of the matter is: most times the 'meta' doesn't actually exist but you see a lot of builds being repeated because people are too scared to try something new.
RE: Meta & Viability - BrahmsFrost - 04-10-2020
(04-10-2020, 05:54 PM)Prestige Wrote:(04-10-2020, 05:50 PM)BrahmsFrost Wrote: I just wish they did tune the weaker trees. Like example Magma got buffed and then apparently nerfed again.
Or take Riptide as an example. A tree that really doesn't offer much. Even the Rings are terrible.
Compared to say Occult, Holy or Cosmic, which have plenty of choices already.
magma wasn't as bad as ppl made it to be, and now it's one of the strongest trees you can pair (both for mages and melee, isn't that funny). 20 dmg homing, an aoe that's better than occult/holy with a 20 secs cd... an invul. great aura. amazing tree.
riptide isn't a bad tree either, i'm afraid. people love to hate on stuff that they don't see used because... that's the way it is in the community, i guess. crystal was treated the same before the TS, despite many of us knowing that it was extremely strong and nobody cared to go for it.
the truth of the matter is: most times the 'meta' doesn't actually exist but you see a lot of builds being repeated because people are too scared to try something new.
Good points! And pretty true. I think exploring new builds is a bit of an issue because most times we don't know how exactly the spell works until bought. The description is nice. But something on the bar like:
Spell Power
Mana Cost
Inflicts slow/stun/blind/silence/curse/rot/what have you and for how long.
Tiles
Range
Or well more info so we can make better informed choices. Right now you get the info after bought but no idea if it slows for X time or blinds for Y or silences for Z until you use it. Like heck I didn't even know Cascade had a drag into stun. Doesn't say it does!
RE: Meta & Viability - Prestige - 04-10-2020
(04-10-2020, 06:10 PM)BrahmsFrost Wrote:(04-10-2020, 05:54 PM)Prestige Wrote:(04-10-2020, 05:50 PM)BrahmsFrost Wrote: I just wish they did tune the weaker trees. Like example Magma got buffed and then apparently nerfed again.
Or take Riptide as an example. A tree that really doesn't offer much. Even the Rings are terrible.
Compared to say Occult, Holy or Cosmic, which have plenty of choices already.
magma wasn't as bad as ppl made it to be, and now it's one of the strongest trees you can pair (both for mages and melee, isn't that funny). 20 dmg homing, an aoe that's better than occult/holy with a 20 secs cd... an invul. great aura. amazing tree.
riptide isn't a bad tree either, i'm afraid. people love to hate on stuff that they don't see used because... that's the way it is in the community, i guess. crystal was treated the same before the TS, despite many of us knowing that it was extremely strong and nobody cared to go for it.
the truth of the matter is: most times the 'meta' doesn't actually exist but you see a lot of builds being repeated because people are too scared to try something new.
Good points! And pretty true. I think exploring new builds is a bit of an issue because most times we don't know how exactly the spell works until bought. The description is nice. But something on the bar like:
Spell Power
Mana Cost
Inflicts slow/stun/blind/silence/curse/rot/what have you and for how long.
Tiles
Range
Or well more info so we can make better informed choices. Right now you get the info after bought but no idea if it slows for X time or blinds for Y or silences for Z until you use it. Like heck I didn't even know Cascade had a drag into stun. Doesn't say it does!
click the name of the spell. the description IS NOT accurate, but the damage/range/mana/cd is.
RE: Meta & Viability - BrahmsFrost - 04-10-2020
Mhm. After bought. Before that you only have the description and clicking won't show anything. Then bought you can see it by clicking on it on the bar of spells obtained.
RE: Meta & Viability - Prestige - 04-10-2020
(04-10-2020, 06:14 PM)BrahmsFrost Wrote: Mhm. After bought. Before that you only have the description and clicking won't show anything. Then bought you can see it by clicking on it on the bar of spells obtained.
no. you don't need to buy to see it anymore.
![[Image: DvgXOJU.png]](https://i.imgur.com/DvgXOJU.png)
RE: Meta & Viability - BrahmsFrost - 04-10-2020
Oh nice! Good to know! So it's on the name?
RE: Meta & Viability - Prestige - 04-10-2020
yep.
RE: Meta & Viability - Avee - 04-10-2020
I agree with Dani’s points but ultimately what it comes down to is not letting yourself be sold on the idea that something is ALWAYS better than something else. People who crunch the numbers for any advantage they can get will always pop up, and thus the concept of a meta will always exist, but you must always remember ANYTHING can be viable depending on how it is used. Some things may suit you and some things may not.
It’s all personal taste, and skill also plays a big part. The numbers matter, but someone like fru/bog/hated/Chance who have very high skill levels cannot be used as a basis of comparison to the average player. Otherwise you will always find yourself frustrated because these things are “op” this is why their opinions on balance are also listened to by people, because they generally have a decent idea when something is overturned, even when they sound like a smolppcuck when they do it.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk or whatever the kids are calling it these days.