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+--- Thread: The Current State of Eternias Meta (/thread-15959.html)
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - CrystikRage - 08-30-2023
me looking to xarxes having 5 invulns but people quoting 4
idc let him be potent but at least get it right
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - BLOX - 08-30-2023
i realize the things said here will be largely irrelevant and dismissed in the large flood of discussion which will rotate for a while but i will say:
any character that is unbeatable should be, at the very least, interactable in a positive way that does not benefit one side only.
take the RISE member who caused the tournament. pushed IC and caused a significant change to the world (though its tied behind the tower which i dont really like, but thats preference)
take Lyseroth and how he, once becoming the strongest, turned into an EC and caused a significant change to the state of the world
now, consider xarxes. i'm not dismissing his efforts, but i am going to say: he is not influencing the world beyond being a beatstick for the enemy side to throw at people in raids, who has gotten so strong that he is now barred from getting raid match ups. this has obviously caused futility in his character on account of no longer being able to be that beatstick. which is fine! a powerful character does not need to attend raids. there are lots of other ways to influence rp in the world.
but... if you actually look at what xarxes is doing now:
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/820467453397958658/1146277586658398218/image.png)
![[Image: image.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/820467453397958658/1146290703954104370/image.png)
you can say what you want, but randomly running into a settlement that has publicly renounced you and looking for stalls
and ALSO sparring right beside TAG tower, known enemies who have knocked down a tower of yours says one thing, to me.
He's unstoppable.
I'm not coming for Xarxes as a writer. I don't know what Xarxes writes because all I ever hear is negative discussion around him. And it really sucks, because having a character that's this strong shouldn't be possible, but it obviously shows he's a decent writer because he's lasted this long and apped that much. It just goes against game balance. I don't really care what anyone has to say about it. If your MAJOR ANTAGONIST can walk into settlements, look around and not suffer any consequences beyond a few scars (i.e., the 2v1 scrap outside the Dorian settlement), it breaks IC immersion MASSIVELY
I don't really know what should be done about invulns. I think Xarxes' build could be piloted by anyone (i've piloted pieces of the build with success without nearly being as stacked as it) but I also don't think the game should revolve around RPBs so strongly when people's numbers and skill levels can be so different (as said by Lung earlier!!). However, I, and everyone else, has a very different vision of what the game should be.
I just think that there should be a cap on how strong you should be able to become. Remember at the beginning of E4 when the admin team and community agreed, at large, that uniques and the journal system and hiddens shouldn't be as wide-spread? That's WHY the public master system got introduced in the first place. But, we slowly went back, and now we're in a stage of massive power-creep.
I think that on the side of the admins, more careful consideration should be given to what is given to certain people.
A while ago, I was having a discussion in the discord where I was told, verbatim, 'those who are not good at the game are more likely to be given Signatures.' I don't think this is actually really healthy for the game, but I think it serves as a good balancing act. I just think it should be done with much more consideration for the game state as a whole, because if an antagonist can walk into 2 enemy settlements, perform very OOC behaviors like sparring and looking for stalls, and walk away unscathed? There is something wrong with game balance.
I will also say that Na'ria's player, also complained about people walking through their area when I approached them during the tower fiasco. Their response was to danger them, and this was a fairly large, public area that people NEED to go to get fruit spawns. I think that it's a little inconvenient, but they made their claim to the land; thats only fair. People who ignore territory rules should be punished accordingly, even if they needed to be there.
But... why did Xarxes need to be in 2 enemy settlements? What did he need there that couldn't just be elsewhere? And, above all else, why did he do so in such an OOC manner that showed that he didn't feel any threat?
What people have stat-wise and hidden wise needs to be either more tightly gatekept and kept track of, with strong characters having regular check-ups (not to incite nerfs of powerful people, merit-based RP rewards effort and taking that away is counter-intuitive, but to evaluate where they are strength wise and what they are doing to justify that strength)
as for the discussion about invulns being on a second cooldown? idk lol im done giving game balance i give game balance suggestions even when i'm not playing and they're largely ignored. i've accepted that this game's meta moves in waves, and whatever is strong will be strong. it is what it is.
however, i think a lot of you have blinders on as to what game balance should be and should be ignored largely due to a) your lack of knowledge on what actually makes something strong and b) your lack of skill-expressive builds (again! no judgement! my character at its peak was Metal + Cosmic + Earth in a time when whips stunned, beams did a ton of damage, mud was incredibly overpowered and Tremor did 11k with a huge ass hitbox. it was not very skill expressive) c) the fact you're in an echo-chamber regarding the builds you encounter (also no judgement-- especially regarding occult and holy since people within the same settlements will likely mostly have holy and occult and only encounter the other in dangers or high-stress fights.)
tl;dr, better examination regarding stats/uniques/hiddens to keep numbers from getting out of hand.
stop fucking posting balance threads we've had like quadruple the amount of balance changes we had in e3 this shit is getting out of hand and i know the journal team is getting sick of the constant respec apps
xarxes stop walking into enemy territory and acting like you're untouchable
also as an addendum; just set up a dedicated balance team that doesn't play and doesnt lean towards any specific tree. maybe assign each tree a class or identity so its purpose can be properly evaluated (damage, support, etc?? idk. im spitballing and this is all a stream of consciousness) and you dont end up with really stupid spell combinations in a single tree that I WONT SAY HERE, BUT I KNOW EVERYONE SAW 1 PARTICULAR TREE IN EFFECT A LOT MORE THAN OTHERS IN THE TOURNAMENT
edit: im high as fuck dont try and argue with me i will not listen and i know im right anyway
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - GSM - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 03:43 AM)PfizerPfish Wrote:(08-30-2023, 03:41 AM)uncatastrophic Wrote: characters with sigs (sometimes multiple sigs) are not exactly the most normal measure of game balance
It's difficult to neglect those characters in a conversation about game balance when they oft are the most influential individuals in the game. No character, regardless of their talent and efforts, should be unbeatable.
The thing is that he isn't unbeatable. He's a player character with a lot of power, but he isn't flawless, and he plays to cover those flaws.
I can take rounds off of him, and I don't think myself as the strongest build out there. Sure, I'm an Imperfect, but there are others with just as influential builds that can easily feud with him. I'm not name dropping anyone, but he is one of the very few antagonists in the world that is actually strong to this extreme.
What you're failing to realize is that this is a combination of literal OOC months of dev (uniques, sigs, event rewards, etc), not to mention a character that has contributed a ton into other peoples' dev. This is a man with more dangers than most people have spars. By all accounts, this man has literally trained up his very own bar and completely mastered it. He has WORKED for this power. But, again, every single time he does something, each time he's allowed to participate in an active scenario or event, people whine and bitch about it and say that he doesn't need Aether and that he blows people up too fast and he's this and that and whatever.
Yes, he has 4 invulns. The problem with invuln stacking, in my mind, is with builds that want to exclusively sit in invulns and heal in them (read Ribcage and Spirit Meld, two invulns in sustain/defensive play-orientated trees, which are the most commonly used for sustain invuln stalling). Xarxes uses invulns incredibly aggressively and has absolutely no way to heal on his bar. And 3 of these invulns take up slots on his bar, whereas 2 of his invulns are master tokens. Get real, most people couldn't even make a build like that work if they tried, but it's literally required for Xarxes because of Fairy DR and his obscenely low Vit- otherwise he just dies.
And, need I remind you, the damage being thrown out in RPBs now is to a point that invulns are necessary to play the game for average players. Xarxes has the worst of it, because he is even frailer than most characters ever will be. It's literally a game of nuclear tag now, and Xarxes is the ultimate end point of it.
Either he explodes, or you explode, and he will outplay literally anyone in any given moment. But saying he's unbeatable is discounting just how much he's had to work for all of this, only to be thrown under the bus and treated like a cardinal sin if he does anything shy of showing up and doing a few emotes.
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - uncatastrophic - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 03:43 AM)PfizerPfish Wrote: It's difficult to neglect those characters in a conversation about game balance when they oft are the most influential individuals in the game. No character, regardless of their talent and efforts, should be unbeatable.they're influential characters but were also granted spells that are intentionally more powerful which factors into them being powerful
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - PfizerPfish - 08-30-2023
(08-30-2023, 04:09 AM)GSM Wrote:(08-30-2023, 03:43 AM)PfizerPfish Wrote:(08-30-2023, 03:41 AM)uncatastrophic Wrote: characters with sigs (sometimes multiple sigs) are not exactly the most normal measure of game balance
It's difficult to neglect those characters in a conversation about game balance when they oft are the most influential individuals in the game. No character, regardless of their talent and efforts, should be unbeatable.
. . .
GSM, please be candid. He is not beatable. I can't list a single meaningful RPB that he's lost in the last month or more, even when fighting builds of all different styles. Sparring him on a daily basis will certainly allow you to win a round or two, as is the case with anyone, and it also gives you time to adjust to his build and playstyle. As BLOX referenced, he has been spotted walking into enemy territory, in front of his BIGGEST IC enemies without any fear of repercussion, because he is aware of the magnitude of his strength. It's difficult to engage in this conversation with you when your judgement and points are clouded by subjectivity and personal bias.
I will reiterate, Xarxes is not beatable.
And allowing characters to have more than one or two invulnerabilities just isn't healthy.
I'll leave it at that.
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - Dreamspeaker - 08-30-2023
skill issue?
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - GravityChill - 08-30-2023
Sounds like skill issues.
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - FireStartingSnake - 08-30-2023
I can't fully recall but in some situations like walking into a city aren't you allowed to 2v1? Especially when it comes to a super strong PC like Xarxes. Obviously this is a ticket situation but walking into a city shouldn't become a 1v1 situation. If you're alone, you should be dog piled on, it just makes sense.
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - Avee - 08-30-2023
The amount of whinging these past two pages has been utterly remarkable.
This isn't a thread to discuss idle musings about territory rules and other non-mechanical aspects of the game.
Xarxes is a strong guy, I get it. He has incredible character development, and this shows in his spells and capabilities. I respect the character. He also had a questionable bulld I guess. Pointing the finger at him and screeching just reeks of simple jealousy and nothing more.
This post isn't targeted at anyone in particular, but God Damn...
Never would I thought I had to say this in a thread about balance discussion, ever.
Can we get back on the topic of balance and the meta? Character development and territory cap rules is for nerds.
Buff me. Nerf my opps.
RE: The Current State of Eternias Meta - RainIsABirb - 08-30-2023
I regret bringing up Xarxes at all, honestly. My point was that he's not a point to argue over. Go to a different thread called "I Hate Xarxes" or whatever.
- love you, Neather. Sorry about all this.
Moving on: The core of the issue is that people who run 3+ invulns/counters/defensives (yes, this includes shields and other sources of DR and deaths door and whatever the fuck you want to consider a defensive option) are substantially stronger than those who don't, and that the capability to run so many defensive spells stifles the way for more to be added. Limiting the number to like, 2, would pave the way for more to be added and existing ones to be rebalanced around this new limitation, creating a more even spread for defensive spells in general.