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+--- Thread: Jab Opener (/thread-12490.html)
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RE: Jab Opener - Mouse - 08-30-2022
me watching someone drop a wall of how their ridiculous unarmed ability beat my ass punching me 300 times a second from across the entire rpb box literally like a jojo combo, "check this uppercut" me into the treeline decimating me with their unarmed prowess and skill
because they took a 20 rpp dip into unarmed
(openers can be decent, but they shouldn't be the best ability in the tree. this is the same sentiment i share with other trees like mist, too, before you try to one up me)
RE: Jab Opener - Penguin - 08-30-2022
(08-30-2022, 12:29 AM)Mouse Wrote: me watching someone drop a wall of how their ridiculous unarmed ability beat my ass punching me 300 times a second from across the entire rpb box literally like a jojo combo, "check this uppercut" me into the treeline decimating me with their unarmed prowess and skill
because they took a 20 rpp dip into unarmed
(openers can be decent, but they shouldn't be the best ability in the tree. this is the same sentiment i share with other trees like mist, too, before you try to one up me)
That's also true, they shouldn't be the best ability on the tree! But the rule is not that they are bad. Some are just niche and have their use in specific builds.
RE: Jab Opener - Milly - 08-30-2022
You have learned Dash Strike
You have learned Flying Kick
yeah go ahead.
let me buy jab as armed.
i dare you.
RE: Jab Opener - TheHopscotch - 08-30-2022
Lung didn't like jab mages, sorry guys.
Papa unarmed said we can't. =/
RE: Jab Opener - Friendliest - 08-30-2022
(08-30-2022, 12:14 AM)Touc Wrote: Most openers aren't meant to be good (with exceptions), and especially not as good as Jab.
I want to preface this post with the fact that looking at each opener objectively, not trying to disprove or undermine your opinion by any means.
Opening trees we will leave out for obvious reasons.
Race Trees
Fire
Wind
Water
Illusion
Earth
Energy
Nature
The remaining openers
God Openers
Cosmic Dash (cosmic) -Homing, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener
Field of Ice (Ice) -AOE, slows, increases incoming, probably the second best skill in the tree as the opener
Mist form (Mist) -Utility, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener.
High Openers
Dash Strike (armed) - Homing, If you're hardline melee, Dash strike is core and amazing, a powersmash mage build can let this one go.
Plasma Strike (Plasma) -Homing, increases incoming damage, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener. (Maybe debatable with Tesla)
Light Orb (Holy) -Skill shot, Core for standard holy mage builds
Shadow Orbs (Occult) - Skill shot, Core for standard Occult mage builds
Bone Lance (Bone) - Skill shot, The main stun of the tree, second best skill in the tree (IMO)
Magma Slide (Magma) - Wave, procs MUD...enough said.
Bang (Explosion) - Homing, Slows...I don't need to say much about bang...it's very good.
Decay (Time) - skill shot, increases incoming damage...pretty strong.
Pond (wellspring) - Aoe Pretty standard for wellspring magi
Compression (Gravity) - Homing stun...enough said.
Shadow Claw (Shadow) - This is debatable, but this skill is core for shadow skills and the tempo shift that it has is VERY fucking valuable. The community might lable this mid, but I personally will put it at high
Mid Openers
Prism Beam (Light) Skill shot, does ok damage but the blind would make it lowest in the high tier for me. core for Light Mage builds.
Shardshot (Crystal) - Pretty good, generates a cystal which is actuall busted, this might be a bordline high opener, like bottom tier high opener.
Golden Bolt - Skill shot, I have this in mid, but this skill does like fucking 10 damage on a 12 second cd...its only held back by its speed
Aoelian Cascade - Homing, pretty decent, not like the best but core for tempest mage
Metal Lance - Lierally the same as golden bolt
Bad
Blood Siphon (Blood) - Homing...meh
Poison Dart - Skill shot, its not bad but...well, it is what it is.
As for Flying kick....it does slow and it is gcde, the main problem that I see is that Unarmed is NOT a main damage tree, its a supplimental tree. A majority of the builds that will unarmed have better options in their kit to fill the role that Flying kick does. It's not a bad skill...its just NOT an opener, like, personally. That being said, the argument against Jab as the opener is pretty effing sound, I cannot lie about that. Jab is bonkers...but that being said, I don't think thats a bad thing at the moment. With removal of unarmed stances, dipping for the pow stacking is pretty much gone. Jab, while I agree, is the best tree skill in the tree, I don't think it is a good enough reason to make *flying kick* the opener, I mean, even Axe kick is a better option, or even weighted punch. But FLYING KICK? Fuck man, it's SOOOO bad.
I forgot sound, it's high, a homing slow is always great
RE: Jab Opener - Touc - 08-30-2022
(08-30-2022, 01:02 AM)Friendliest Wrote:(08-30-2022, 12:14 AM)Touc Wrote: Most openers aren't meant to be good (with exceptions), and especially not as good as Jab.
I want to preface this post with the fact that looking at each opener objectively, not trying to disprove or undermine your opinion by any means.
Opening trees we will leave out for obvious reasons.
Race Trees
Fire
Wind
Water
Illusion
Earth
Energy
Nature
The remaining openers
God Openers
Cosmic Dash (cosmic) -Homing, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener
Field of Ice (Ice) -AOE, slows, increases incoming, probably the second best skill in the tree as the opener
Mist form (Mist) -Utility, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener.
High Openers
Dash Strike (armed) - Homing, If you're hardline melee, Dash strike is core and amazing, a powersmash mage build can let this one go.
Plasma Strike (Plasma) -Homing, increases incoming damage, Literally the best skill in the tree...as the opener. (Maybe debatable with Tesla)
Light Orb (Holy) -Skill shot, Core for standard holy mage builds
Shadow Orbs (Occult) - Skill shot, Core for standard Occult mage builds
Bone Lance (Bone) - Skill shot, The main stun of the tree, second best skill in the tree (IMO)
Magma Slide (Magma) - Wave, procs MUD...enough said.
Bang (Explosion) - Homing, Slows...I don't need to say much about bang...it's very good.
Decay (Time) - skill shot, increases incoming damage...pretty strong.
Pond (wellspring) - Aoe Pretty standard for wellspring magi
Compression (Gravity) - Homing stun...enough said.
Shadow Claw (Shadow) - This is debatable, but this skill is core for shadow skills and the tempo shift that it has is VERY fucking valuable. The community might lable this mid, but I personally will put it at high
Mid Openers
Prism Beam (Light) Skill shot, does ok damage but the blind would make it lowest in the high tier for me. core for Light Mage builds.
Shardshot (Crystal) - Pretty good, generates a cystal which is actuall busted, this might be a bordline high opener, like bottom tier high opener.
Golden Bolt - Skill shot, I have this in mid, but this skill does like fucking 10 damage on a 12 second cd...its only held back by its speed
Aoelian Cascade - Homing, pretty decent, not like the best but core for tempest mage
Metal Lance - Lierally the same as golden bolt
Bad
Blood Siphon (Blood) - Homing...meh
Poison Dart - Skill shot, its not bad but...well, it is what it is.
As for Flying kick....it does slow and it is gcde, the main problem that I see is that Unarmed is NOT a main damage tree, its a supplimental tree. A majority of the builds that will unarmed have better options in their kit to fill the role that Flying kick does. It's not a bad skill...its just NOT an opener, like, personally. That being said, the argument against Jab as the opener is pretty effing sound, I cannot lie about that. Jab is bonkers...but that being said, I don't think thats a bad thing at the moment. With removal of unarmed stances, dipping for the pow stacking is pretty much gone. Jab, while I agree, is the best tree skill in the tree, I don't think it is a good enough reason to make *flying kick* the opener, I mean, even Axe kick is a better option, or even weighted punch. But FLYING KICK? Fuck man, it's SOOOO bad.
I forgot sound, it's high, a homing slow is always great
With this and the other posts, I stand corrected. Openers are generally good (though I think shadow orbs/light orbs and Dash Strike aren't as good as you think, but that's just my preference).
I'm just wary of people dipping unarmed literally solely to take Jab and that's it, without any focus on the other abilities. This will still happen regardless of Flying Kick's existence because of how good Jab is (it'll just make people spend more RPP), but I suppose the excuse of 'it's an opener so it shouldn't be that good' is invalid.
RE: Jab Opener - Lung - 09-01-2022
answering friend
First of all, Unarmed is not a easy tree. now is said lets begin.
jab cant be a opener, not only will reduce the jab mages cost by 10 (20+10), but you will add a main spell of the tree as a first spell, which i understand the game was build for spend more if you want the good spells, if every tree was the same the game would be like that, so some openers being better than others? prob design choise.
(reason i belive is not made opener)
So yeah you need spend 20 points in the opener + 10 points or more for other good skills seems like the base of melee combat, just look at armed.
You could trade any spell for fk as opener that is not jab, and you will still waste 20 points for get the opener plus the 10 for the good spell you desire to take.
You could just said flying kick is a shit spell and hard to hit, instead of compare to other spells. (which i agree if you dont understand the hitbox)
You suggested wp and axe , spells with good tracks and easier to land, assault is a tp track, titan fist was made gdce so is easier to land, while grapple,throw and fk are the hardest ones.
Im sorry to say but if you cant stand difficultie, then you cant stand unarmed, we have the bless of rebith potions,and if you feeling like you not having fun for this run or something maybe you could trade for a build you will like more, 10 points difference in rpp will not fix the difficult problem for everyone, just for jab mages.
RE: Jab Opener - Jumpy - 09-01-2022
if jab is the opener of unarmed phantom strikes can be the opener of armed
it did get nerfed by .5 damage after all, clearly it's all fine.......