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+--- Thread: Spell Balance Suggestions (/thread-585.html)
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RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - asin - 01-31-2023
(01-31-2023, 04:12 AM)Kiha Wrote:(01-31-2023, 03:03 AM)DanteriusAvius Wrote: Minor point of clarification, unless it was changed and I missed it, Bone Blades is a flat power buff, not an AP one. (As in it buffs based on your flat pow, not total power)
all AP buffs do this, its stacks with the rest of the present AP you have for its duration, so 10% from windwalker becomes 20%
not with Bone. it gives base power, not AP. so let’s say you have 200 power base and a 60 pow staff. instead of getting 260 + 15%, you’ll get 200 + 15% since your base is 200
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Spiffspoff - 01-31-2023
(01-31-2023, 02:29 AM)TheHopscotch Wrote: Having seen bio in action recently from the sidelines - The overwhelming strength and possibility this subset of spells have is something really powerful. It seems it's time to perhaps tone down this tree which continues to see prominence throughout seemingly every era of Eternia. (To stand with the other trees and not tower above them.)
Bone stun seems to stun for a crazy long amount of time - With it being capable of acting as an omni-directional stun when coupled with bone blades, perhaps a slight tone down (to the average 2s.) is in order. (Still capable of comboing with it, however if you strike your opponent in a phantom strike? You won't get the free follow up, etc.)
Bone in general is very strong.
Having a; low cd stun
Cast-buff which buffs your stun and damage by 15% (Stackable.)
Master which allows you to heal off your enemies damage. (I like the gimmick, so this one is less of an offensive.)
Cleanse as well as a 12sd heal ontop of it.
Huge AoE like tremor which does really good damage. (2 second higher cd than tremor, with one being a master and dealing the same damage.)
Giving a slight nerf to not make it so overwhelming when facing a melee or usual unarmed abuser is probably in order.
Now, onto the rest.
Insectomancy.
40 Spell Dam.
30 Critical.
GCDE Wave that can do upwards of 8k~ (An off bar high damage spell to top off a well-statted aura.)
The wave needs a serious tone down, comparing it to another mastery aura such as Primordial Flame? It's clear which comes out on top. (You don't want every aura to feel samey, but this signature tier aura is better than even stuff like mana absorbtion and so on, all for the low cost of just one mastery token.)
Noxious Cloud - 5 spell dam which can tick upwards of 10 times maximum. While it's not frequent this can hit its maximum amount - The potential of being able to do upwards of 50+ spell dam is probably something which could also be toned down. (Back to 4sd~ish.)
Vines/Imp/Clones - Should be moved to the summoning tree (Freeing up space in trees and allowing me and chance to add new spells to the tree. Making vines an intermediate would clog up nature even further, still being able to stack these 'lesser' summons with elemental ones or buffing them with this change would be beneficial to everyone.)
As a bone user, here's some points of contention:
- Bone is not strong, it's niche. It does very little damage on its own because it lacks good offense from how few spells it has. If you want to do damage, you have to use Ivory, which is just that-- a solid AoE that does a pretty chunk of change.
- Bone blades gives flat pow, but if I recall correctly only for physical elements meaning itself, armed, and unarmed. This means it's outright a dps loss, as most cast buffs are, because I could just use a spell with 10 SD and outweigh the buff due to GCD. Unarmed is a different beast, half of the tree is gcde, but you shouldn't nerf something just because a single spec can abuse it.
- You say that Bone Lance is the longest stun in the game, but keep in mind it also does piddily damage, is bound by GCD, and requires a slot dedicated to a bad castbuff that only has real synergy with Lance, and unarmed if you use the prime unarmed brie. Everything else is a dps loss. Lance also has a janky hitbox, and is pretty hard to land without bone blades as a result. (Certain abilities like Light speed or kick seem to just make you immune to the stun effect for some reason too, not sure what that's about.)
If you're affected by mud, bone lance's stun will fade before you can cast a follow-up, unlike a whip.
- Reform is a cleanse+heal which funnily enough scale with bone blades, but it also hurts you for half of what you heal up front, which is dangerous at low health because it can KO you. The heal is like, 1500 at most, which isn't much.
- Ivory is an intermediate which does good damage, on a decent cooldown. It applies no effects. It's just a good spell, but you're forced to pick up either bone blades, or drill, which you might not even bar. Especially not if you aren't using lance. But this is also bone's only damage, because we both know you're never going to use Drill.
So overall I don't think bone warrants any nerfs, especially not when it only has 6 spells to its name in the first place.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Nephilim74 - 01-31-2023
(01-31-2023, 02:29 AM)TheHopscotch Wrote: Having seen bio in action recently from the sidelines - The overwhelming strength and possibility this subset of spells have is something really powerful. It seems it's time to perhaps tone down this tree which continues to see prominence throughout seemingly every era of Eternia. (To stand with the other trees and not tower above them.)
Bone stun seems to stun for a crazy long amount of time - With it being capable of acting as an omni-directional stun when coupled with bone blades, perhaps a slight tone down (to the average 2s.) is in order. (Still capable of comboing with it, however if you strike your opponent in a phantom strike? You won't get the free follow up, etc.)
Bone in general is very strong.
Having a; low cd stun
Cast-buff which buffs your stun and damage by 15% (Stackable.)
Master which allows you to heal off your enemies damage. (I like the gimmick, so this one is less of an offensive.)
Cleanse as well as a 12sd heal ontop of it.
Huge AoE like tremor which does really good damage. (2 second higher cd than tremor, with one being a master and dealing the same damage.)
Giving a slight nerf to not make it so overwhelming when facing a melee or usual unarmed abuser is probably in order.
Now, onto the rest.
Insectomancy.
40 Spell Dam.
30 Critical.
GCDE Wave that can do upwards of 8k~ (An off bar high damage spell to top off a well-statted aura.)
The wave needs a serious tone down, comparing it to another mastery aura such as Primordial Flame? It's clear which comes out on top. (You don't want every aura to feel samey, but this signature tier aura is better than even stuff like mana absorbtion and so on, all for the low cost of just one mastery token.)
Noxious Cloud - 5 spell dam which can tick upwards of 10 times maximum. While it's not frequent this can hit its maximum amount - The potential of being able to do upwards of 50+ spell dam is probably something which could also be toned down. (Back to 4sd~ish.)
Vines/Imp/Clones - Should be moved to the summoning tree (Freeing up space in trees and allowing me and chance to add new spells to the tree. Making vines an intermediate would clog up nature even further, still being able to stack these 'lesser' summons with elemental ones or buffing them with this change would be beneficial to everyone.)
Remember your words king. Just that you get owned by someone its not means theres something unbalanced. Bone tree is one of the trees that serves its duty like a chad. Bone lance is longest on the game its right but remember it is not gcde. Wich makes it fair and balanced. Cause when you hit that and if you have mud effect on you. You cant even use spell while your target stunned. And cause of its not gcde you can only land 1 spell after you hit your stun. And hitting stun is something else. You can only hit it if you have boneblades wich cost of another 10 rpp.
Turning to vines. Nature tree is good supportive tree and it is best in game so far. It even has that mechanic wich makes you can grow your crops faster. The main issue that everyone struggles with summons that they are still bugged. They are not moving right as it should be. And thus moving them into intermediate? Its joke right? Not everyone wants to play armed or some close combat. Cause of that people makes kiting build and it is the reason that makes combats unique. Moving them into intermediate means if you want summon you dip into nature tree deeper that will cost you 60 rpl. You guys really need to understand you cant win everytime.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - ratqueen - 01-31-2023
(01-31-2023, 12:06 PM)Nephilim74 Wrote: Moving them into intermediate means if you want summon you dip into nature tree deeper that will cost you 60 rpl.
well you see, the whole point of changing the location of vines at all is to make it harder to randomly dip for
that is indeed the desired effect; if one wants the nature summons, their character should be a nature magi
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Detective100 - 01-31-2023
I can't really object to the idea of having vines be an intermediate skill in nature. As it stands it is quite dippable for any mage to have those summons for 20 rpp, and even more so for bio mages.
However, my main concern is how a nature/bio magi is supposed to get to intermediate without it.
You'll be left with just yggdrassil (15 rpp), spore (15 rpp), rolling vines (10 rpp), vine whip (10 rpp), and nature aura (10 rpp)
Without a reduction in rpp cost in either spore or yggdrassil, you'll only be able to reach nature intermediate after spending a total of 55 rpp in nature magic if you take only one of them. The only way for a clean 50 rpp cost is if you commit to buying both yggdrassil and spore, which can limit build paths.
Add in how vine whip is currently a bad spell since it is a low damaging whip (even for gcde standards) that doesn't do anything else, and it'll become more of a struggle to reach nature intermediates.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Chance - 01-31-2023
Bone is fine.
Insetomancy & Noxious Cloud are somewhat overtuned.
Vines could be an Intermediate instead of a mandatory biomancy dip (though the same could perhaps be said for Clone)
Buff Unarmed
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - ACuriousGrey - 01-31-2023
(01-31-2023, 03:07 PM)chance Wrote: Bone is fine.
Insetomancy & Noxious Cloud are somewhat overtuned.
Vines could be an Intermediate instead of a mandatory biomancy dip (though the same could perhaps be said for Clone)
Buff Unarmed
What've you done to clone... you've killed him...
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Chance - 01-31-2023
Good.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Nailman - 01-31-2023
while we're on the topic of overtuned auras can we take a look at camo too
and flashbeam / lifebomb on the topic of "these spells potentially hit a lot" given that flashbeam can hit you for upwards of 60 if someone gets stuck against the wall/clone/vine/whatever
it's a bug i know but it still deals a lot of dmg if it procs multiple times, and it's literally something you can't react to if you get stuck since you get stunned
I don't mind flashbeamers that much but it was far more grating for me than fighting Fist bc a split second miscalculation meant I took 40% of my 250 vit in a single spell
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - asin - 01-31-2023
did we forget to mention buffing unarmed?