[Wooloo]

Hey yooooo, Mister Tinyhands here with a genuine complaint about Nethradin

That complaint being we don't get JACK SHIT.

We no longer get Witchcraft as our racial, instead just getting Telepathy. We also have TERRIBLE stats even amongst the Monsters. We get 'occult tree access' but that basically just skips a shitty app, and all of Shadowmire gets this basically anyways.

Nethradin literally have nothing going for them after the removal of Witchcraft from them. 200 RPL locked Monster Race that actually has no perks.

Also for refrence Nethradin get +15 vit and +60 power as a racial, which is pretty trash, because even common equipment will beat that out. Remember, we can't use any items at all, so we're severely understatted.

Please sir, a tiny crumb of something to make these 'rare and dangerous' creatures... Dangerous?

[Avee]

Unironic Suggestion : Change nothing about the stats, but give them Riftmancy.

It’s all fun and games until the nethandrin warps next to you, wanting to make a deal.

That and it just has meme worthy combat potential.

Two birds one stone, I ship it.

[Wooloo]

Unironic Suggestion : Change nothing about the stats, but give them Riftmancy.

It’s all fun and games until the nethandrin warps next to you, wanting to make a deal.

That and it just has meme worthy combat potential.

Two birds one stone, I ship it.

As memey as that is, and lord knows I endorse a good meme, that's not the answer

Also I've gotten in trouble for rifting people in combat before so yeah......

[Hoovyking]

60+ power as a racial is absolutely NOTHING to sneeze at, but this thread got me thinking on how Nethradin can be set apart from previous demon-like rebirths.

Witchcraft was an interesting idea, but Hexes were pretty strong to be given out freely. As an alternative, I think Nethradin should be able to "Contract" with PCs with a few different applications.

Contracting would be a racial unlocked at 200 which costs 3 essences to use. You would create a contract with a PC that lasts for a set amount of time, in which the Nethradin and PC select a benefit from each other. Each player would receive a mechanical contract paper in their inventories that outline the time limit, benefits, and costs of the contract.

Options for PCs:
Hunter's Eye and Demon Summons from the previous Demon racial tree
Companionship (Long range telepathy with Nethradin and limited summoning capabilities)
A reasonable vit/pow buff

Options for Nethradin
Contractee cannot attack Nethradin/Shadowmire Creatures
Contractee is aged 5-10 years instantly
Contractee suffers a Blessing-like nerf for 2-3 years

This gives Nethradin an interesting niche with their witchcraft, allowing for devil-type characters to run around and have soul contracts, without having to make a huge adjustment to how Nethradin play in battle. Just an idea!

[Avee]

Hoovy raises a number of interesting ideas. 

It’s worth noting that the POW buff seems to exist exclusively as a means for the Nethandrin to keep up in terms of damage with 200+ Players. The same goes for the VIT buff. They seem to be balanced around the later game, yet, with the Witchcraft locked out, it’s not necessarily adequate to cover the lack of IC mechanics which were in place to counterbalance the seemingly intended weakness of being a “big spooky fart.”

That said, whilst I do support Hoovy’s ideas here, the question goes back to witchcraft. Do we trust players with such a thing or not? If we can’t rely on the community to self-regulate, we can’t realistically assume they would use the abilities suggested as intended, as interesting as that would be.

Honestly, the best policy would be to re-enable witchcraft, and purge nethandrin that don’t use the skill properly. This can be through a forced rebirth, or a temporary ban, rather than just stripping them of what was arguably the best tool in their kit.

Ok typing this on mobile hurts.

Peace.

[Datura]

It'd be cool if Netheradins at the very least got some natural occult buff, with a discount for orbs.

Dreamwalking would make for a really dope addition if Netheradin are really meant for style over mechanics.

[Mouse]

witchcraft and hexes have been consistently misused and have, in 99%(and maybe more) cases, been absolutely awful to deal with on an IC and an OOC level. even back when witches were widespread, hex in general, no matter how often we reiterate the proper way to use it, has very rarely ever been properly done. it's disappointing but these mind altering effects are awkward, at best, in a game where every single player is.. just that. a person.

that said, perhaps 'contracts' could work. a nethradin sacrifices a % of its own personal vitality(think: blessing) and in return gives something tangible to a contractee. a pow boost, a vit boost. maybe a large boost of some sort of elepow. the details would probably need to be ironed out, but i always liked the idea of nethradin being 'supporters' who have minions do their bidding but still managing to be powerful in their own regard(hence the 60 pow).

telepathy, dreamwalking, etc etc could still be added back in, and i wouldn't mind

i just really hate hexes. nethradin probably do need something else thematic, regardless.

[ferrettamer]

"Also for refrence Nethradin get +15 vit and +60 power as a racial, which is pretty trash, because even common equipment will beat that out. Remember, we can't use any items at all, so we're severely understatted."

12 vit or pow from vit enchants
10-15 vit from armor (with weight)
about 50 pow on a staff (possibly no weight)

it's pretty close to equivalent to an 'almost-full' kit w/o any money investment at all so idk
especially if you can dev for more as people have talked about on discord

EDIT: also this all assumes you're 180 rpl in the first place which idk if nethradin get to easily but that took some time for me as a newbie

[Jumpy]

While all of these suggestions are cool and valid you have to remember that you're basically being given free decent equipment stat-wise and a locked tree + a fluff ability on a race that isn't meant to be rising up and leading settlements.

Out of all of these I think Riftmancy is the better idea, yet it's something that requires a high level of development for normal characters, giving it for free would just mean that you're the best race in the world from the get-go.

If anything they could get the Accursed Buff which provides dark pow, that would make their free occult more special.

[Wooloo]

"Also for refrence Nethradin get +15 vit and +60 power as a racial, which is pretty trash, because even common equipment will beat that out. Remember, we can't use any items at all, so we're severely understatted."

12 vit or pow from vit enchants
10-15 vit from armor (with weight)
about 50 pow on a staff (possibly no weight)

it's pretty close to equivalent to an 'almost-full' kit w/o any money investment at all so idk
especially if you can dev for more as people have talked about on discord

EDIT: also this all assumes you're 180 rpl in the first place which idk if nethradin get to easily but that took some time for me as a newbie

Neht start at 150, as do the other stronk monsters. I'd say this is so they don't get instagibbed but the hungry hungry 200+'s definitely lawnmowered a bunch down regardless.

I will say that lategame equipment far exceeds the numbers you're projecting. Some weapons have between 60-70 power, and there's even armors that grant like +5-10 power per slot. Admittedly, these are hard to get, but considered these are also the sort of folk that come to curbstomp monsters into the ground for having a barbecue too loudly after 8 PM, we do need to weigh 'lategame' into consideration with monsters.

The point of the racial buff was to put them 'slightly above' a normal player, so that they are uniquely risky to engage in solo combat. I'm not saying they should be invincible by any means, but the fact that the ones that are literally supposed to represent the ultimate evil in the world are... Well, subpar at best, kind of also hurts the IC of them being any legitimate threat.

I AM ON BOARD WITH MOUSE though. Hex is always awkward to use, and is a very powerful ability. Nethradin need something, but that specifically might not be the answer, because I know some peeps do just kind of use it shittily.