We need to have a talk about Witchery

[Chance]

and the Coven instead ran around fighting people and even quite literally screaming 'I AM A WITCH. BURN ME PLEASE.' at anyone who would listen. 

while i agree with your general point, let's not be so negative. there are many witches playing their role well and fallen ones who also did so (but were caught out, or made a move and lost)

i think the class is a resounding success vs. the organized covens of the past that didn't quite play into the infiltrating society aspect as much

[Detective100]

I think you are missing one of the main benefits of witchcraft, the special potions that encourage them to actually be valuable and secretly trade with people in cities, versus necromancers that can offer... blatantly evil ore and not much else.

I agree that witches just have a playstyle miscommunication, or in other words, a skill issue.

Honest question though, how do you trade inside cities without getting caught?

All it takes is for a single customer to call you out, and suddenly they'll have proof in the form of potions only witches can make.
Only way I can see such trades happening is if the witch does so while in disguise, and by then it is better not to do it inside the city since the disguise itself will be a most often than not be a tell too.

[Oyster.]

People in cities as in citizens of those cities, not literally being in there without an earlier rapport.

[Chance]

I think you are missing one of the main benefits of witchcraft, the special potions that encourage them to actually be valuable and secretly trade with people in cities, versus necromancers that can offer... blatantly evil ore and not much else.

I agree that witches just have a playstyle miscommunication, or in other words, a skill issue.

Honest question though, how do you trade inside cities without getting caught though?

All it takes is for a single customer to call you out, and suddenly they'll have proof in the form of potions only witches can make.
Only way I can see such trades happening is if the witch does so while in disguise, and by then it is better not to do it inside the city since the disguise itself will be a most often than not be a tell too.

agreed, trading as a witch should be done in their disguise as a "black market" kind of deal, outside of the cities

unfortunately once a witch exposes their identity to anyone that may expose them they are extremely vulnerable and at risk

[Kayla]

Part of the issue is just how the current witches played vs how the Necromancers played. We literally killed 3-4 witches in Vdalion because they walked up to us and basically dared us to do it. 

Witches are meant to be stealthy, to thrive on intrigue and plots. They literally have the ability to communicate completely silently, while also having the ability to make their own disguises, and using dreamwalking can communicate across vast distances without needing to be seen traveling, while also the leader of the coven can spy on people. They can generate their own special points by holding sabbaths.

They are an absolute TOOLKIT of spy shenanigans and the Coven instead ran around fighting people and even quite literally screaming 'I AM A WITCH. BURN ME PLEASE.' at anyone who would listen. Which, while funny doesn't exactly mean witchcraft is bad, so much as the coven didn't play to their strengths of witchcraft.

Plenty of witches played stealthily. This is a gross misconception.

[Oyster.]

This is why I was against necros starting with disguises in the first place, as it blurs their advantages.

However, letting witches change a disguise for 5-10 essence is not a bad idea, and is absolutely something they have been established to be able to do lorewise.

[Chance]

that's what the mask potion is, mim, but a witch only really needs one disguise anyway

[Oyster.]

Oh ok nice : O

[Detective100]

Got an idea to help with witches keeping up their disguise.

To figure out who might behind the disguise, people tend to focus on the magic affinities and spells the witch uses in disguise. There have been cases where people were stopped in the middle of the road by would be witch hunters demanding them to reveal their magics in order to spot them.

I am personally not a particular fan of that, as it relies on the meta knowledge that a witch won't be able to easily change their spells to better seperate themselves from their disguise.

To help with that? How about a new potion that'll only work for witches, that will effectively be a much easier to make mana amnesia? (Potion name pending, of course).
It'll give witches the ability to better mask their presence by using a different magic build while outside of their disguise, so that people won't just go "Your build is the same, you're the witch!"

For example, my current character is mostly a fire magi, but he has the option to become a full on water/mist build with a mana amnesia if need be (Which, might only ever happen for HCOI events...)

[Chance]

To figure out who might behind the disguise, people tend to focus on the magic affinities and spells the witch uses in disguise. There have been cases where people were stopped in the middle of the road by would be witch hunters demanding them to reveal their magics in order to spot them.

this is extremely powergamey and borderline meta in a world with thousands of magi. it should not be done at all and is considered bad faith play. it's something worth ticketing over

i'm not a fan of your potion idea as having multiple magic builds is ? for obvious reasons. it's just weird / has lore issues. the solution to the above problem is to not tolerate low effort play that pretty much ruins people's experiences & to report it vigilantly so the staff can carry out proper quality control

although it does bring up a conversation of when it's appropriate to suss out a disguise, and it's not so easy to determine. if you fight someone once, then spar them in their disguise, it's likely very anti-climatic to use that. at the same time, disguises can be somewhat overpowered/provide too much of a safety net to someone who is being reckless and wild if one and two aren't put together

thinking back, i really liked how aphros handled vitriol as they had a long list of genuinely suspicious incidents before they made a move. when something like that happens, it's more earned/real and has substance to it