HealsFirst Encounter Cap Kills - A Novel.
#31
I agree that first cap killing is pretty anticlimactic. More than that, if there is a death, there should be a way of spreading it so that it can at least have an effect on people instead of leaving them hanging in this weird IC limbo where they assume they're just dead. From personal experience, Natasha was one example, and it feels odd to just suddenly forget or ignore their existence because they were one of the RBs to Theria. I tried my best to avoid making them an afterthought, but it came harder as I RPed more since there was no IC way of discovering as people started RBing like crazy across the two population shifts we've had.

That aside. This is a more general critique, but I do believe that rules and guidelines should be written and stated more clearly in this game. There are more 'unwritten' rules for everything here to the point that the only way you can get a grasp of this game is to fumble around and ask the community. When you ask ten people, you might get ten different- or varying answers to the same problem. It's going to be subject to a lot of interpretation, and different interpretations will clash. The best way to reduce salt, bickering, and drama is to clearly outline rules and expectations and enforce them consistently.

When I worked on my first hidden app, I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. I got a lot of conflicting advice from a variety of people from all of their experiences. And even as I was looking for a hidden that matched my IC, there was a huge problem because the wiki page is completely out of date. Dozens of spells are missing, there aren't any descriptions for what they are, what they do, and what kind of theme they're related to. If there's something you'd like to app for, your only choice is to ask around which only opens things to misinformation and arguments.

When I did get things confirmed, I looked through the guidelines and rules for making an application, but all it really did was give a template for the format. The archived examples are a good step of figuring out what might be good, and I've relied on the old forums for guidance when there wasn't enough to go on in the current forums. But any problems with apping would be reduced if time was taken to write a comprehensive guide of rules, expectations, and examples of how things should be done. And this can apply to a broad range of things within the game as well.

Prison break ins and escapes? I think you can break someone else out ICly, because that's something I was able to figure out by reading the rules in the OLD forums. But there's nothing about that written here. And it seems like it can only be done through raids. But yet again, that isn't written either? I'd have to ask an admin. And once again, it opens up the chance for more salt to come if admin/mod opinions differ. People aren't perfect, and they're certainly not robots. Things might change on a given day for a number of reasons, regardless of a different context.

As for the wiki, there's virtually no attention paid to it. So as a result, you have newer players asking constantly about questions and problems that could've been solved if time was spent outlining everything. Esshar is a fairly free-form game, but free-form isn't an excuse to be overly vague, otherwise arguments like these will pop up again and again.

Edit: Some minor revisions upon taking a closer look on the forums, sorry I misconstrued a few points
Reply
#32
Oh! Don't get me wrong, events and the like can take the place of fights or whatever. Plus, imma also chalk this up to unimaginativeness, because I've seen heroic chars find more interesting and unique ways of devving hiddens then villainous chars and their eat babies and gank (with a few exceptions).

The other thing is that the only time I've had an app denied (out of about twenty apps) was my Necromancy app for Ophelia with ~18 logs build over the course of their entire character's run. Reason: Not enough dangers. One utterly unrelated events later + the random gank of a child and the same app with those logs and bang I have the hidden. This 'advice' of you need dangers to get hiddens is actually the reason why they died cause i went to war with a non-combat character with a bad build, lost every fight, just to get stuff for Riftmancy dev.

Just arguing from personal experience so you know where I'm coming from.
Reply
#33
I think the problem is you (and some others) think of "fights" and "events" and "scenes" as some sort of discrete unit of "dev" that you must have a certain arbitrary amount of to be accepted for an application. That isn't really the case. I'll once again TOOT the fuck out of my own horn... if I can get approved for exalted spell with 0 dangerous encounters, 0 events, 0 non-restrained fights, and like one 'training' / sparring log... I think anyone can as long as they go in with the right kind of mindset.

I don't know about Spires, but Eternia 3, there is no "danger" requirement. You just need to have a good story and a good enough reason to justify a power boost.

18 logs sounds like too much, to me. Like you just slapped together a bunch of random scenes that had something interesting happen (a fight, an event, etc) rather than pivotal character moments, true character development (not the shitty Eternia 'dev' lingo, actual literary character development).
Reply
#34
ps if you really want to be accepted for an app... i hear ERP logs are highly desired
Reply
#35
My dev points bro

I got 40 on sibylle can i get death magic?
[Image: qt6dQlw.png]
Reply
#36
(02-05-2020, 12:04 AM)Doohl Wrote: I think the problem is you (and some others) think of "fights" and "events" and "scenes" as some sort of discrete unit of "dev" that you must have a certain arbitrary amount of to be accepted for an application. That isn't really the case. I'll once again TOOT the fuck out of my own horn... if I can get approved for exalted spell with 0 dangerous encounters, 0 events, 0 non-restrained fights, and like one 'training' / sparring log... I think anyone can as long as they go in with the right kind of mindset.

I don't know about Spires, but Eternia 3, there is no "danger" requirement. You just need to have a good story and a good enough reason to justify a power boost.

18 logs sounds like too much, to me. Like you just slapped together a bunch of random scenes that had something interesting happen (a fight, an event, etc) rather than pivotal character moments, true character development (not the shitty Eternia 'dev' lingo, actual literary character development).

Apologies posting from phone but while that's a fair assessment I'm not someone who really engages with the verb system of the game so that's kinda an unfounded stab at me.

It's TRUE I get pretty anxious about posting apps and I sometimes take entire days to agonize over tiny details that noone gives a crap about like finding a nice pic for my app etc... but my dev for that character involve long conversations about the nature of Necromancy with every other necromancer in the settlement, followed by medical dev and formal necromancy training then followed by personal experimentation and prayer to Azrael. I save every app I make and I can show it to you if youd like when I get back from D&D.

The random fights got me the ability over all that work I put into it is my punchline.
Reply
#37
once again ... vriska. is right. and the rest of you? are wrong. see yourselves out
Reply
#38
(02-05-2020, 12:34 AM)Heals Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 12:04 AM)Doohl Wrote: I think the problem is you (and some others) think of "fights" and "events" and "scenes" as some sort of discrete unit of "dev" that you must have a certain arbitrary amount of to be accepted for an application. That isn't really the case. I'll once again TOOT the fuck out of my own horn... if I can get approved for exalted spell with 0 dangerous encounters, 0 events, 0 non-restrained fights, and like one 'training' / sparring log... I think anyone can as long as they go in with the right kind of mindset.

I don't know about Spires, but Eternia 3, there is no "danger" requirement. You just need to have a good story and a good enough reason to justify a power boost.

18 logs sounds like too much, to me. Like you just slapped together a bunch of random scenes that had something interesting happen (a fight, an event, etc) rather than pivotal character moments, true character development (not the shitty Eternia 'dev' lingo, actual literary character development).

Apologies posting from phone but while that's a fair assessment I'm not someone who really engages with the verb system of the game so that's kinda an unfounded stab at me.

It's TRUE I get pretty anxious about posting apps and I sometimes take entire days to agonize over tiny details that noone gives a crap about like finding a nice pic for my app etc... but my dev for that character involve long conversations about the nature of Necromancy with every other necromancer in the settlement, followed by medical dev and formal necromancy training then followed by personal experimentation and prayer to Azrael. I save every app I make and I can show it to you if youd like when I get back from D&D.

The random fights got me the ability over all that work I put into it is my punchline.

No offense. But I got Necromancy on Drew by... Basically just studying every necromancer in the settlement. Having consistent scenes of him attempting Necromancy with frequently explosive results.

I was interested in Necromancy and just made Necromantic experimentation a huge part of his IC for in game years and just got clearly into his character arc because it was central to his worldview.
Reply
#39
(02-05-2020, 01:43 AM)Enginseer-42 Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 12:34 AM)Heals Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 12:04 AM)Doohl Wrote: I think the problem is you (and some others) think of "fights" and "events" and "scenes" as some sort of discrete unit of "dev" that you must have a certain arbitrary amount of to be accepted for an application. That isn't really the case. I'll once again TOOT the fuck out of my own horn... if I can get approved for exalted spell with 0 dangerous encounters, 0 events, 0 non-restrained fights, and like one 'training' / sparring log... I think anyone can as long as they go in with the right kind of mindset.

I don't know about Spires, but Eternia 3, there is no "danger" requirement. You just need to have a good story and a good enough reason to justify a power boost.

18 logs sounds like too much, to me. Like you just slapped together a bunch of random scenes that had something interesting happen (a fight, an event, etc) rather than pivotal character moments, true character development (not the shitty Eternia 'dev' lingo, actual literary character development).

Apologies posting from phone but while that's a fair assessment I'm not someone who really engages with the verb system of the game so that's kinda an unfounded stab at me.

It's TRUE I get pretty anxious about posting apps and I sometimes take entire days to agonize over tiny details that noone gives a crap about like finding a nice pic for my app etc... but my dev for that character involve long conversations about the nature of Necromancy with every other necromancer in the settlement, followed by medical dev and formal necromancy training then followed by personal experimentation and prayer to Azrael. I save every app I make and I can show it to you if youd like when I get back from D&D.

The random fights got me the ability over all that work I put into it is my punchline.

No offense. But I got Necromancy on Drew by... Basically just studying every necromancer in the settlement. Having consistent scenes of him attempting Necromancy with frequently explosive results.

I was interested in Necromancy and just made Necromantic experimentation a huge part of his IC for in game years and just got clearly into his character arc because it was central to his worldview.

I'm not sure what the no offense is for Confusedweat_drops:

I did the same thing and I can say the same thing as what you posted except I got a different result. As I mentioned before I have the app if you'd like to look at it. I'll not get into it here tho especially on my phone!

Just as my last post on this thread (since Vriska make a legitimately good metaphor that I missed because I only saw the beginning and end of this thread and I dont want to take away from it by further covering it up with my posts) I just wanna say probably the reason why I dislike capkilling and why I see it as so tied to people who only really care about their own dev over other peoples experiences:

Same necromancer character, felt forced to do war matchups to not get a repeat of being denied for an ability others describe as easy to get yet I was denied for not enough fighting did war matchup, cap one against a Huangzhou higher up, I say ooc that if I win I'll release them since cap 1 minimum after villian monologue.

They agree, and better yet, they say they'll do the same. Awesome. I get stomped because I'm not made for combat and have an awful build that's unsavable, I get cap. They pause for a moment when I wait for them to let me go.

'I'm gonna take you in and make you a good char!!' Ooc telling me explicitly that this is for their Mercy dev. They proceed to not RP with me and I'm executed very shortly after. They DM me a few days later 'sorry for killing you but I see you had a dev item on you I want it for my wintemute dev how would I go about devving that fron that item??? I didnt respond.

Anyway last post from me.
Reply
#40
(02-04-2020, 10:03 PM)Doohl Wrote: when people say "you need combat logs to get hiddens!" just remember this, and i keep saying this:

i got an exalted spell with absolutely 0 fucking dangerous RPBs. i just put out a decent effort app, showcased some of my best logs, wrote out character story and plans... that's it.

you don't need combat logs you need fucking... substance. that's it. combat logs can be a VESSEL for substance, but combat logs are not by default substance itself. jesus. actually, more often than not, combat logs for the sake of having combat logs for an app are suuuper boring and devoid of substance.

grr!


*Sips tea*.


Interestingly enough, when I apped for an exalted spell I had the exact opposite answer: "Good story, character needs to be more outgoing/antagonistic though"

Apping can be a weird, and uncertain result, just like that. Hence the need by some to get into more dangers for apping.
Reply
Topic Options
Forum Jump:




Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)