[Dreamspeaker]

All these points need support and validation, but there is one in particular that should possibly be urgently addressed:

The power creep is too real, specially as, in opposition to most of Spires' lifespan, progressing far past 200 has become a walk in the park, and 220 becomes the hard cap. There needs to be a more glaring limitation not at how fast PCs are able to climb, but rather, how high.

TLDR you see long developed chars already in their 30's and they're barely 225 or around that

I believe that's actually what makes up for most of the issue, actually. The rates at which we earn checks feel somewhat samey, but... remember when decimals were a thing? PCs that have been around for very long are already an abyss of strength away from most new characters, with every other perk they will have engrossed included, but actually earning a whole RP Level feels like way too substantial a reward.

Of course there should be a disparity between a veteran or ancient character and a more inexperienced one, but I feel as if reaching 220 has become commonplace and no longer the big deal it used to/should be. This, I think, has birthed the dislike that a parcel of our playerbase and administration hold towards aged characters.

It's not difficult to reach 200. It's not that difficult to reach 220 either, provided you have consistent roleplay source (which, as it seems, antagonists actually lack).

RPL is hardly a problem. There's little to do for people if 200 RPL is already easily attainable.

An actual issue is when these old characters (who are already established via hiddens) go out of their way to grime new characters. It's why I abstain from fighting new characters even if it fits my IC, because I realize that it's bad to do - but when RPL is easily achieved (to a certain point of 220), and afterward it becomes titanic effort to gain more (past 220+, effectively hitting almost dead stop), there's... really little to do about RPL itself, nor it's that big of an issue.

It's like addressing an obvious issue, but coming at it from very odd angle.

[Chance]

i've added a dreadwood themed area for today's update (along with the map itself), which will be classified as demon territory and grant them protections there. this applies to someone just purposely idling right outside too, though those kinds of situations would likely need admin mediation. the primary exception being demon vs demon battles

[Enigmatic Outlook]

Hey! Very appreciative of all the replies and thoughts bouncing around, just thought I'd add this before a reply.

it's on demon antagonists to organize themselves and find IC solutions to IC problems. you can't really blame the average character for not wanting to sit down and have a lengthy conversation with a giant spider - their natural response will be to fight or to run, most of the time

Absolutely. But I think this is more of an OOC problem than it is an IC problem. I'm not against living through the harshest conditions on my characters- That is strictly what being a Demon / Mimic in this atmosphere entails- But rather the mentality of a few players in the game that make this not an IC issue, but an OOC issue of winning the game and slaughtering their competition while it still stirs.

While living through the problems that being a Demon / Mimic entails - The added problem of these creatures being very easy to valid-kill, and certain members of the community doing just that - Makes me want to fiercely combat the current rules and advocate for one that emphasizes cooperation, cohesion, and storytelling. This is a roleplaying game, right? My point being- I want better etiquette, and rules that can be enforced to ensure our standard response to first/second encounter, capture setting 1 kills isn't - "Shit happens."

i've not seen many demons killed. very few actuall. we have a log of every dangerous/deadly rpb that takes place which means it isn't like we're missing anything. the last one is even a demon beating someone in an RPB it looks like?

Perhaps Demons aren't on the chopping block, and I don't make this topic purely in selfish desire - But today a Mimic fought in a Dangerous 1 against the Teraphim 'Ro' that was 60 RPL above him. This mimic was captured and instead of being allowed spare development and avenues to flesh out their story, they were hauled to Myllenoris where they would surely be executed. And that is exactly what happened. In my opinion, he never should've been dragged back to the slaughterhouse. I'd love for Vriska and co's continuous suggestion to be taken in this situation - ICly aim to kill them, deal damage, let them go. This is an egregious RPL difference, first or second encounter, etc.

But suggestions only go so far - I'm asking for the rules and etiquette to shift in the direction of being courteous - And cooperative - So that the above is no longer a suggestion, but an expectation - And maybe even a lightly enforced rule. I think we can do better, I hope we can. The 1 cap kills and bounds and leaps in RPL differences aren't an often occurrence - But they shouldn't be an occurrence at all. Would it be so horrible to look into a rule like: "In neutral territory, characters who have a 20 RPL difference should automatically get a cap 0 as an etiquette." This would fix most qualms that people have with these rare but unfortunate occurrences. It's already a dangerous, right? I think it'd help to keep bloody wounds from festering.

what i would like to see a large dark forest in the north west that can be entered through a warper, and with a handful of private areas that'd be a good hideout. if you get 225 rpl's just idling there to gank, then they'll be at risk of 2v1 since it's loosely demon "territory". something like that?

I'd love this - For Demons and Mimics and generally people who support and enjoy the direction they're taking, I support it wholly. A little nudge of support for us and the others really braving this hell is acknowledged and greatly appreciated. Thank you, seriously.

[Esmeraude]

Ok before I get into this I have a bone to pick.

The Demons, especially the ones that we brought in to start this whole theme of them coming back... Certainly didn't try to find anything other than dangerous when we were safeguarding them. And not to throw you under the bus, but you can see in several places that many times I had offered to do more and work on development with any of you constantly. Instead, the only interest you ever had was being taken out on a leash to find an encounter for those dangerous AP gains. This isn't a bad thing, but being in a constant line of fire is expected, and when given alternatives which were ignored before? I'm a little surprised that now it's an issue, and those dangerous encounters are getting tiring.

I'll admit I am very annoyed since most who have died or fallen that emerged from the cave could've easily asked me for help or any kind of assistance. Even now as I am taking a break from the character, I am still available and around to assist if it's needed. Alternatives given before certainly went ignored, and now these dangerous encounters have become a problem due to people being captured/killed from them?

This is where I will say the first few demons were a mistake, and we certainly shouldn't have taken you out as much as we did. And we certainly should have not safeguarded you during this whole time, to give you this net of security and safety which doesn't exist. And with many of you next to each other, and even mimics that exist with you too. You need to realize you can find roleplay with each other and be able to avoid getting into heavy conflict each day. Another thing I saw very little off is you all working together on something, and now I am at the point of not even offering out my help actively because I am tired and burnt out myself.

What I suggest now is taking from this and learning, and reaching out to others within the hideout or those around it... And working on things and ways to make for more than going out to hunt/do dangers. You can do events for hunts, which can bring more interesting/build bonds between antagonists even. There is a lot more to do than walk out of the cave into those people camping it. And as much as many people want to go out and create roleplay for the community, sometimes it's better to take a step away from it.

Now I move onto my next point, the community.

Ever since I made my Witch it has been nothing but a struggle against metagaming, and constant jump to accusations and even people making up literal things that there's no proof or hints at and don't exist/happen to try and get you in trouble. And this was something you dealt with constantly, day in and out of Osrona era of being undercover. Most (Not all) of the community only focus on themselves, and they want to be the special snowflake to do the big reveal of a witch being a witch. Or in terms of evil, being evil. People hunt for credit too often, when playing along can create much more enjoyable roleplay overall and for yourself and the antagonist, people just don't care. They crave for that acknowledgment for expelling something bad, and that's where the game and its players begin to plummet.

All these private little servers people have made, and discuss things happening icly oocly in the chat are a big problem. Spreading knowledge that you know only oocly is unwise, as a lot of players can't keep it from their IC and end up pretty much metagaming it completely. And admins can't do anything about this because you honestly need hard proof of metagame to get someone in trouble for it, which is very fair due to how thin the line is and how difficult it is to tell when it's happening. Just knowing what someone is in the back of your head changes your IC towards them, and it's unfun to play with which inevitably ended up pushing a lot of the antagonists to be burnt out or just want to move on. Including myself.

I found even after the grand reveal it had become a chore to play a character, and tiring to write on them after dealing with so much of this. And it didn't even stop after the whole reveal happened either, which makes it worse. These little chats are a big problem, but not as big a problem as the community (Not everyone) but most think towards other people's IC. Taking what they have heard OOCLY and slowly forcing it into their IC too, treating people differently based on OOC knowledge. And this can even count towards just who someone is OOCLY affecting your approach towards them ICLY.

It's wrong, and people should be aware of their actions. Promoting roleplay is much more fun, and enjoyable. It's healthy for the game itself and creates that web of mystery and surprise when things happen. When certain people say they are bored or have nothing to do, despite having killed most of what could have been a pulling story disappoints me.

Names aren't worth mentioning here, but if you feel like this is directed at you?
Then maybe you're telling yourself something, and you need to make a change.

This situation of being a witch is the same as being a demon or mimic, it's just as bad or worse honestly. Since even if your undercover, you're being watched/judged constantly as the OOC knowledge is practically already known. And you can't hide it for long if you want to do things interesting, one hex and it's literally over... Especially if someone roleplay's it poorly or tries to metagame using it. Having to bring in admins for these situations shouldn't happen, and I feel like it's an issue of respect. Even if on Eternia 1 it was more lawless and dangerous, people generally had a lot more respect for the overall IC and writing of others, and in today's game that's missing heavily.

I've said this in voice a lot of times to multiple people, even in regards to capturing 1 rolls or 2's or 3's... Not needing to end in someone's death, as before when we had an issue with people being killed we acknowledged it better and promoted the use of pretending/giving someone an out from the end of their story.

A lot of problems exist, and they are extremely hard to tackle. This isn't an admin issue or a game issue, it's a community as a whole issue. And if the game is going to get better, people's attitudes towards IC and OOC need to be changed. At the end of the day, the only time you'll ever win on this game is if you push the narrative and if you aren't doing that, you are playing the wrong game.

I might have missed a few things, or even not mentioned stuff. But these are some general thoughts/feelings I had after reading a few posts here after just waking up.

[Enigmatic Outlook]

.....

I think you misinterpreted my posts and my very small snippet about dangerous battles wasn’t intended as a shot towards you or the witches. I’ve continually told you to your face you were always there for us and the most active around us. I’m appreciative and forever grateful of Nox and your presence, as I’m sure Hoovy is as well.

Last post before rest - Goodnight, and thank you!!

[BrahmsFrost]

Demons confused me a bit. Wish I had understood they are CHAOTIC EVIL LOCKED. But even then saying tnothing but the truth and thinking admin has this meta issue solved... lol yeah welll... I was being a good sport. Used that EC to help otyher people Dev because well my own arc just got killed. I lost desire to DM, and all I had was that character left. And Im like I cant even use this so I might treat it like som mentor type that inevitably teaches or protects someone long enough. But hey if the other man can meta us three months non stop and get no punishment...

[Chance]

sed that EC to help otyher people Dev because well my own arc just got killed. I lost desire to DM, and all I had was that character left. And Im like I cant even use this so I might treat it like som mentor type that inevitably teaches or protects someone long enough.

i'm really not sure how this is contributing to anyone's development, but that's beside the point. setting up an EC with 600 in stats and sniffing random people then dropping 6k flees is obviously not permitted 

Counter grapples her arm delivering the blow to her throat! (Lars 'Sliver' Commoragh) Lars 'Sliver' Commoragh is attempting to flee! They have scored 6520

please don't try and justify it. we entrust players not to do things like this when we grant them DM privileges, and our system is purposely open to allow almost anyone to run an event, so when you do something like that it isn't cool at all

if you disagree with the ban or would like to make your case, you can post an appeal and it will be processed. if you believe someone is metagaming, a report is the way to go. we confirmed that there was no metagame involved after handling the previous reports, and that was it. comparing the two is poorly deflecting

[BrahmsFrost]

There's some problems that have been going on lately that have put a really big damper on not only my outlook and mental status regarding the game, but many others as well. I normally don't effort post, and believe me I like to hold myself back as much as possible, but something happened today [And something a few days prior] that sort of irritated a lot of my general grudges with the game-state and the community and I'd like to bring those to light in the here and now.

A bit of a preface; Playing a Demon has been really brutal- In the early phases, when we went out to go roaming we always had to be with our Witch envoys or else we would seriously be ruined hardcore. People playing at extremely low RPLs and trying to get into their characters aren't safe- More on this later- And it becomes sort of an issue where in this cooperative writing game, we often find ourselves fighting others who seem to be playing for keeps.

In recent times, people have started wanting to win-- and there's nothing wrong with that! But there's a lot wrong with stomping out the competition before it even has a chance to go anywhere. People lately have made it a point to kill the mimics and the demons before they get a foothold, which has meant sometimes camping outside the hidden entrance to their nest or taking hit squads out into the woods.

I played one of the Demons- And recently I found myself going to leave the cave we often returned to for a place of safety. Granted, outside of leaving the base- There is next to no RP to be had for your character. When I crawled out, I was met with around four or more PCs of opposing factions waiting there for a catch. I was very lucky to have people who were willing to work with me and offer me a Dangerous 0 for our first encounter despite an RPL gap, but other people may not be so lucky. Many have not been so lucky. 

Leaving that four man party with an injury, I found myself with a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth- I've been doing nothing but dangerous battles for my entire character life, and for my recent application I distinctly posted how much I hated the sheer volume of dangerous battles used- But it is the only RP we as demons have been able to snap up. With my main source of RP coming from battles, I have hit this point where every time I go to RP - I am fighting for my life - And being injured means I no longer get to RP for however long unless I want to increase my chances of death. Chance himself posted rather recently that in this current era, it is brutally rough to be an antagonist. And with the game's state, dying is absolutely on the table - First encounter, massive gaps of RPL, character strength disparity - You name it. There's a good chance it won't save you, and your story and effort is curbed right then and there.

There have been several 1 cap encounters with RPL disparities having ranged from upwards of 60 RPL, and in a couple of those cases, mimics have been captured. One died today, as it was taken to Myllenoris when it could've instead been let go or given a fluffed based 'narrow escape'.

This shouldn't be happening. People need to understand that, just because someone rolls a cap, doesn't mean that that person needs to be taken back to a place where they're very likely to die. They do not need to be killed. There are alternatives. Cap does not, and should not equal death in many cases. This is a point many have tried to drill into people's heads time and time again, but it just doesn't stick. Very likely because those people don't actually care.

And that's the core of the problem.

There are good people. Plenty of good people! But there are some people who abuse the lack of actual rulings and they need to be reprimanded for it. Maybe cap 0s need to be encouraged more. Maybe there needs to be rules. People shouldn't be taking gank squads near enemy territory just to try and catch people with their pants down. Some might find that fun and exciting, but it's almost guaranteed that no one on the receiving end finds that to be the case. It chases people away. It has chased people away. People have gotten tired of seeing the same song and dance. Stories are getting stomped on. Antagonists (namely mimics and demons) don't have room to breathe.

The map change is a step in the right direction, as it'll make everything closer and way more clean, but that won't change anything mentioned above.

Though the issues mentioned don't happen every single day, they shouldn't happen at all. It's a problem that needs tackled and deaths in a writing game absolutely should have standards, as dying is permanent and we as writers shouldn't be looking to end each other's story in a premature way. It genuinely feels as if some people have forgotten that this game isn't a competition and that working together is the number one priority over winning.

We as a community need to work together for our fun, and the fun of everyone else. A cooperative writing experience, if you will. Administrative team- If you could look into solutions to making greater strides towards cooperation, the rest of the game and myself would be grateful.

As always- Feel free to make your own suggestions below if you have certain rule changes or etiquette policies in mind. Thanks, everyone.

Demon is hard, but its part of the lore they just need a place they can you know be out of hunting season, at least while in their. That way they can have respite.

I myself was confused by it thinking demons could like choose but oh boy was I wrong. Well I guess in some way they will get some respite, I hope

[Esmeraude]

.....

I think you misinterpreted my posts and my very small snippet about dangerous battles wasn’t intended as a shot towards you or the witches. I’ve continually told you to your face you were always there for us and the most active around us. I’m appreciative and forever grateful of Nox and your presence, as I’m sure Hoovy is as well.

Last post before rest - Goodnight, and thank you!!

That's fine, and I appreciate you are grateful.

But there was a lot more you could have done outside of roaming, and pushed for more development and things.
And I am saying you ignored those chances, or rather just didn't want them? Unsure which one, I doubt it was ignored.
Either way, like I said in my big post you all have alternatives to going out and getting into conflict and should work together.


And as a note here, Henrietta/Nox isn't gone or dead... I am just taking a break from them, as a lot of things happened quickly and toppled the pace of roleplay/IC
Currently, I would rather the new generation of bad/people just do as they need and grow, but feel free to reach out to me in DMs if you need something. 

Esmeraude#3507

[Oberyn3088]

Okay as my last character was really the only one that had any interactions with demons, the way I'd do it was. I'd ask someone lower RPL with me to make the trip, and any demons we found I'd let them fight. My character was just there as an observer, as the one time I was forced into a fight with a demon it was clear they were still low RPL and I kinda stomped them.

I didn't really feel good afterwards about it, which then made me take up the approach listed above. It actually seemed to work okay! The demons and them would have their fight and then that would be that. We weren't chasing the demons down to try to murder them, just to encourage rp and maybe the starts of a rivalry or something.

My point is sometimes people need to put winning and being the best on the backburner and realize that just stomping out any potentially antagonistic forces will just lead to the stagnation that a lot of people have been frustrated with of late. If you Cap? Don't necessarily act on it! Come up with an IC reason for something to go wrong. Or something. This is an RP game and people are definitely creative enough to come up with ways that even after winning a fight their 'hated' foe could escape in some way. So please at least TRY to do that rather than stomping out antags before they have the chance to get their feet under them...