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+--- Thread: Spell Balance Suggestions (/thread-585.html)
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RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Touc - 08-12-2022
I'm not sure if this is intended, but Quicksand seems to be slowing for a long time. Like, way too long. You can cast Quicksand, and if the enemy walks into it, they're slowed and suddenly way easier to hit with any other slowing abilities. Also, I think its slow lasts for just a little less time than its cooldown, meaning that it can be spammed like hell. I think there might be a bug with its duration stacking with itself depending on the amount of tiles you step on, but maybe that's a feature.
In any case, being permanently slowed by an AOE for 75% of the fight isn't very fun. Maybe Quicksand could use a look at just to make sure it's working as intended/to ensure that its slows aren't stacking too badly?
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Touc - 08-12-2022
Also, I've been trying out Energy magic for a while on my current character (and also back in Esshar), and I thought I'd share my findings. It's not looking good, honestly. Compared to genuinely powerful trees and subtrees like Air, Nature, or Sand, I just can't see the point of investing heavily into it... which sucks, given how cool it is.
![[Image: oJu8kG1.png]](https://imgur.com/oJu8kG1.png)
(please note that 'dogshit' is used for effect, each of the spells described as such can be good but broadly I view them as bad in comparison to spells equal in tier within other trees - i can give examples if needed)
To be honest, with the state that it's in, it feels like the tree exists solely to act as support to Holy/Occult/Cosmic without any thoughts of it standing on its own. Three of the basic spells are good, Rapidfire is okay if you have a root because otherwise its tracking is horrible, and the two Masteries can be fight-winning but eat into your mastery points. Its intermediates are middling at best despite having cooler visuals than most spells in the game - one will get you killed if you don't take out your opponent before it ends, and the other doesn't work as well if your opponent is corner-hugging (which is a bug that'll hopefully be fixed). Eburst stuns for a decent while but is both easy to dodge and hard to hit, and Force Wave's self-root upon casting makes it difficult to use in a fight despite its numbers being nice.
In my view, the tree needs love in terms of a niche which it can excel in beyond 'becomes stronger under 50% HP', because that isn't doing enough for it right now. I've come up with two potential solutions.
First, a combo mechanic that rewards you for combining the Energy spells together by gradually debuffing the enemy's DR or AP. The more you land, the more debuffs you deliver. You could even have spells that are Holy, Occult, or Cosmic (as well as Armed/Unarmed) not break combos in progress, with magic from other trees breaking them. This rewards you for investing heavily into Energy and its subtrees. The tree would start off weak, but the more you invest into Energy, the stronger it becomes. Imagine doing a multi-hit Energy combo and breaking apart the enemy's DR before hitting them with a Holy or Shadow Cannon.
Alternatively, just give it more damage. A lot more damage. Its spells are all hard to hit (aside from Constriction), so reward people for hitting them. Energy magic is the raw expression of mana in its purest form, and that's a deadly force when it's focused, even if it's not molded into any particular substance like fire or lightning. It should be tearing through people, not just lightly tickling them. The first solution is better, in my opinion, given that 'huge amounts of damage with barely any utility' is Fire and Lightning's gimmick.
This was written from the perspective of a mage who really doesn't want to go into a ton of other trees in order to make Energy worth it. To me, those two routes I've described above are potentially good fixes for the issues that Energy has. It should be either the 'high damage without utility or debuffs' tree or the 'middling damage with crippling debuffs on hit' tree. It can't be the 'middling damage with no debuffs' tree that it is now - that just makes it, as I said in my helpful chart, dogshit.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Milly - 08-12-2022
i played armed/energy on blair.
it's the shit.
really.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/415419414222209024/1006710464501252146/unknown.png)
edit: i just closely looked at the picture.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/879492824939262002/1007636715416072203/unknown.png)
this is literally fighting words. Ancestral Wrath has such incredibly *cool* IC, and it's the ultimate shounin aura. It is NOT literally jsut energy aura; it does a bunch of things that you seemingly don't even realize:
1) If you use strike it gives you a 1% chance to silence your opponent.
2) If you're fighting multiple opponents, your melee attacks have a shockwave
3) When you're below 50% health it gives you 20% AP
like hello?????? its 9am i dont need this negativity in my life
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Touc - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 01:07 PM)Milly Wrote: i played armed/energy on blair.
it's the shit.
really.
Was Armed the shit or was Energy the shit (because it admittedly does really well with Armed)? Did you use Force Wave, Rapidfire, or eburst at all? I'm curious to hear about your experience, because I'm speaking from the perspective of an Energy-focused mage who's been trying the different spells out, not a melee.
Quote:this is literally fighting words. Ancestral Wrath has such incredibly *cool* IC, and it's the ultimate shounin aura. It is NOT literally jsut energy aura; it does a bunch of things that you seemingly don't even realize:I thought that it only doubled Energy Aura's AP bonuses and that was that, given that it's all that was said in the tooltip! I thought that it was underwhelming for a mastery given that the others give you between 10% to 15% AP at all times, which is in my view superior but I might be wrong (especially given the IC of the aura allowing it to win out)
1) If you use strike it gives you a 1% chance to silence your opponent.
2) If you're fighting multiple opponents, your melee attacks have a shockwave
3) When you're below 50% health it gives you 20% AP
I guess that you could combine it with Ethereal Wings for a spicy +35% AP, which does actually sound pretty good.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Muramana - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 01:00 PM)Touc Wrote: ....
![[Image: 1f480.png]](https://images.emojiterra.com/twitter/512px/1f480.png)
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Detective100 - 08-12-2022
While I do believe the energy tree is more good than what Touc gives it credit for, there is at least one spell that is admittedly lackluster- And one of which I won't be ever willing to suggest:
Rapid Fire- The spell can potentially hit for a fair amount of damage, key word potentially. It doesn't have enough ranged and/or speed to quickly hit a moving target with the coming blasts, and the tracking is intentionally not the best (can potentially miss my moving around the target). This is why people that use that skill will rely on stuns or roots to land it.
And even after all that? The spell is just a worse version of blades of light from the light tree number wise, both damage and CD (unless rapidfire summons much more blasts to compensate. Haven't had the chance to check it out).
Ethearal wings- That is the spell I can't in good conciousness recommend to anyone. Sure, the stat buffs is similar to that of a master aura with 15% fm and 5% DR, but it lasts only 15 seconds followed by the great cost of spending all your mana.
Unless you have the means to restore your mana quickly right after, you'll be left defenseless without the mana to cast spells until you naturally regenerate enough to fight back.
Moreover, since the duration of the spell is so long, at ninety seconds, normally you'll only be able to use it one time a round.
Add on my personal belief that another spell is usually better than just a cast-buff for only more stats (immunities/speed boost cast buffs are a different story), and that all adds up to a spell I just can't see working unless in very niche or specific builds.
Bonus round:
Force Wave. I can't say much about it, because I rarely see anyone see it despite the damage to CD ratio being one of the highest out there spell wise. When I'll say it in practice, I'll have a better estimate about the skill.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Kiha - 08-12-2022
Whims of Wind is the homing wave that appears from behind you I think, and with that in mind, I want to point out a huge discrepancy in cooldown to damage ratio...
For the sake of fairness I'll compare it to explosion, which has been considered a pretty powerful tree for a while now, lightning, which is a big dps tree, and even fire which is, well, it's fire, I don't really need to say more than that.
Exhibit A (it also creates lingering obstacles)
![[Image: 8bf8b265b7e03b72ed5267c9600fcddd.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/8bf8b265b7e03b72ed5267c9600fcddd.png)
Exhibit B (Shockwave, an intermediate spell in the same tree, and not a homing spell)
![[Image: dbfdbb0e0e1e515d428540f1462af2fe.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/dbfdbb0e0e1e515d428540f1462af2fe.png)
Exhibit C ( boom boom spell )
![[Image: cb93dd54c00f361fc9b7df7a65e9ae95.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/cb93dd54c00f361fc9b7df7a65e9ae95.png)
Exhibit D
![[Image: 989210b729afdaf510792d103b770e79.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/989210b729afdaf510792d103b770e79.png)
Exhibit E
![[Image: f236cafb50b14ba6557dff05e2fe916c.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/f236cafb50b14ba6557dff05e2fe916c.png)
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Detective100 - 08-12-2022
The catch with whims of wind is that it can potentially be dodged by just moving out of the way.
However, the ability to dodge or not depends on:
a) Whether the opponent is able to react on time while focusing on other parts in the battle
b) Whether the opponent is suffering through CC before the spell is cast, like slow/root/stun.
So, it is potentially possible to use a CC first before you follow it up with whims of wind for quite the high damage potential on a short cc. Short enough to always combo it up with a homing or even autohit CC like flurry of overheat for example.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Kiha - 08-12-2022
(08-12-2022, 05:25 PM)Detective100 Wrote: The catch with whims of wind is that it can potentially be dodged by just moving out of the way.You can move out of the way of any spell that isn't homing bar CC for set-up, which is why I compared it to spells that function similarly or have similar cost with much worse cd/range/damage. It also happens that the tree that whims belongs to checks off every box that helps ensure it lands consistently, but I like synergy like that, it's not the function that is unbalanced. Having a wave spell that starts behind your enemy and tries to run over them is very cool. It's the cd/range/damage of the spell.
However, the ability to dodge or not depends on:
a) Whether the opponent is able to react on time while focusing on other parts in the battle
b) Whether the opponent is suffering through CC before the spell is cast, like slow/root/stun.
So, it is potentially possible to use a CC first before you follow it up with whims of wind for quite the high damage potential on a short cc. Short enough to always combo it up with a homing or even autohit CC like flurry of overheat for example.
A 30 second CD or a reduction in damage would make the most sense, it's not even an intermediate and its part of a base element.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Danteric - 08-13-2022
Sustain.
Let’s face it, everybody hates it, and everybody who runs it loves it. As it is, especially this early in the game, sustain is HORRENDOUSLY strong with very little counter play, with only curse/jammer being a somewhat useful way to mitigate healing. One of which is a spell you have to app for to even use, and the other being a gacha item.
Add the curse effect to more spells, or reduce the absurdity of stacking sustain spells.