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RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Peep 'Puff' Topia - 05-05-2020
Remove DR from all auras again. We did this before but backtracked on this.
I'm going to throw some pretty gnarly math here so let's bear with me.
We're going to use Drakanite Aura as an example, for no reason then it is a non-hidden with a simple DR value (10%). I could just as easily use Earth Aura (12%) or Magma (8%) to prove this point, so I'm not targeting drakanites.
Let's assume a Drakanite has 200 VIT. This is low.
We're going to assume they have 150 MC, which means they have 7% natural DR.
Effective HP ('EHP') refers to the amount of HP one can tank. For example, someone with 10% DR and 1000 HP needs to effectively receive 1100 damage to kill them.
The formula is VIT/.(1-DR)
200/.93 = 215 effective VIT. An increase of 15 VIT.
Let's add the additional 10% DR to this.
200/.83 = 240 effective VIT. An increase of 25 additional VIT.
This math only gets worse the more DR you are able to muster. Lets say, instead, that the person maxes MC--200. They now have a resting DR of 17%. And now you add Drakanite Aura.
200/.73 = 273 effective VIT. An increase of 33 additional VIT.
This only gets worse when you add in gear! Nobody at 180+ is going to have 200 VIT! So, let's take a step back. Let's say you have full Nyeshk and you now have 250 total VIT -- and again, this is a lower number. You can get higher then this with the right enchantments and passives.
250/.73 = 342 effective VIT. These '50' stat points became 79 stat points.
All without a single bar slot. All without sacrificing terribly much. If you want conjurer to be allowed to exist, we need to be able to limit how much 'natural' DR is allowed to be gotten and stacked because it very rapidly steers the game to a very specific build, especially when nature exists and allows damage that doesn't require an effort.
I don't believe DR is a bad mechanic, I really don't. I just think it becomes far too easy to sit at very high amount without dedicating much effort into it.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Hated - 05-05-2020
if you build dr your losing out on cdr. seeing how many spells are in the 25 range as an example? 153 agi at 200 is essentially 15% cdr. without it? its like 10% cdr and added weight bonus from equipment. so its actually around 7% cdr, or 3% with nyeshk. ( mithril chestplate 25 weight legs 7 weight. nyeshk is 55 torso and legs are 20.
-15% cdr on lariat (25cd regular) becomes 21.25cd. that difference is immeasurable in cycling your bar. 4 sec off a full bar of 10 spells each lowered makes things go quicker.
-3% cdr? 24.25cd. negligible and a big difference.
My point is that the tradeoff of agi to mana is part of a build and shouldn't be changed. You either tradeoff a bit more vit or get all your spells to cycle quicker.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Peep 'Puff' Topia - 05-05-2020
There's no realistic trade-off. There is not a single benefit of going 50 AGI instead of 50 MC at 200.
Let's even use your math. -15% CDR on Lariat becomes 21. What does 10% become? 22.
We're sacrificing 10% HP for 1 second off a fairly long CD spell?
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Hated - 05-05-2020
you forgot to add the weight of the equipment you mentioned friend
without it, you wouldnt nearly have that high of vit, now would you?
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - BlazeNight3 - 05-05-2020
Having 81 agi makes lariat Cd 24's...just saying...
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Peep 'Puff' Topia - 05-05-2020
Largely irrelevant.
Weapons have no weight anymore. What's full Nyeshk, 60? Full Arcanium is, what, 30? Mythril 40? It's such a low amount as to barely change the formulas--and they change it far more towards DR because the boost to VIT outweights the absolutely insignificant CDR change.
Recall that all CDs round down. There is no 12.9 CD. There is 12. So long as you meet that threshold, you carve a full second off your cooldown.
This mean that AGI only matters for very, very specific breakpoints on each individual spell.
Maybe, on a very tenuous note, you're right! Maybe a full 50 points into MC isn't right for every character. Maybe you should only go 47. Or 45. To hit the breakpoints on your big spells.
But the fact remains.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Hated - 05-05-2020
its highly relevant. a full bar of spells with 2sec gcd between them with 20-25cds on them allows one to usually always have a spell ready, or quickly have them ready. not to mention if you miss them or have full mcap and no agi THEN miss them? it comes down your cds till they come back up. would you rather have a slow bar todo damage or a fast one and a bit less vit? that's the point in having a choice of the two. now if you remove dr or reduce it, no one will ever go it again because its only so much to begin with.
I personally have no qualms about dr. Also you used the wrong variant to scale DR to. It reduces damage, which is linked to power, not vit. 27% DR on 300 power stat is 219
17% DR is 249 power.
7% DR is 279 power.
After that calc then you could multiply it by spell power and find your respective damage calculations. :)
edit: also cooldowns do have a decimal. I timed a specific spell to scale at 4.9, it showed 4 but when I ran the timer it was still closer to 5
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Peep 'Puff' Topia - 05-05-2020
I genuinely cannot fathom a mind that would prefer to reverse-engineer effective HP by applying math upon each individual spell's variable against the power of the caster, augmented by any AP or POW they might have, to come up to a specific number instead of applying incredibly simple EHP math and then, above all else, being smug about it.
How much HP do you have at 50% DR?
They need to deal 2x as much damage to kill you.
Your HP is doubled, effectively.
HP/.5
I'm not going to entertain this alanai-math.
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - spacious - 05-05-2020
(05-05-2020, 04:38 PM)Hated Wrote: ...dr is calculated as damage, yes, meaning 50% dr = 2x less damage taken. this also means your hp is doubled in this case
you just restated what he said in his og post without understanding how or why
damage resist can be calculated as damage reduction but it is easier to look at it as an increase in 'effective' hp, as falcon did above, because that's a simpler way for most to conceive of its value ingame
edit: also in fairness alanai understood how to calculate ehp
RE: Spell Balance Suggestions - Trenton - 05-05-2020
it is interchangeable. you take 17% less damage or deal 17% less damage. the fact of the matter is that it's their stat and not yours, so it makes a lot more sense to consider it +vitality. considering it -power is strange because you will not always fight people with the same power but your vitality will remain relatively the same.